Hip Rotation

Some questions:

If this adds this kind of velocity why doesnt everyone do it?

What do you guys think of the concept?

Has anyone tried the product?

Does anyone have hip rotation exercises that will give the same effect on velocity but does not cost 275 dollars?

I thought this was spam at first, but this is actually an interesting topic.

I would imagine you can simulate this type of exercises with med balls, but someone else can weigh on that.

It would interesting to see if that product would actually work.

I’d ask the following questions:

(1) Is there a tendency to use the arms to twist the device instead of the mid-section? The pitcher seems to have to hold onto the belt a lot. I presume that’s to keep the belt from slipping around him which tells me the arms are doing some of the work.

(2) What’s really being improved? The video talks about strength but it seems to indicate that your strength increases after just one session which I’d doubt. But the video also mentions separation which seems to imply flexibility. So which is it? Is there anything else being improved?

(3) Is hip rotation a conscious, deliberate motion? Or is it more a reaction to the front leg opening up and planting and the front leg bracing? If the latter, how does this device help with that?

In general, the device seems to put focus on core strength which most agree is a good thing for pitchers so I don’t see it hurting anything. But I’d want answers to these questions before laying out the coin.

The guy threw 64 mph and improved to 74. Simply being aware of his hips may have helped him. Really not sold that this gadget caused this.

Not buying it.

Of course I’m a skeptic. Agree that he could have improved hip rotation just by being aware.

I think it’s more of something that can help over time. Not just after one session, but I don’t know how much better than med. ball stuff or stretches that it is or can be.

The part that bothers me is the pseudo-science. They make a direct correlation between the action at the hips and the action at the hand because of the difference in distance from the centre (a 10 times difference and, therefore, a 10 times benefit). He uses the propeller to “prove” it. The human body is NOT the same as a propeller, as it’s not a rigidly connected system. There are many variables at play between the hips and the hand. One can rotate the hips a significant amount without affecting the shoulders, for example. Then there’s the elastic nature of the connections. Then there’s the Stretch Shortening Cycle.

I do like the idea of working on the hips but I bristle every time someone makes a direct correlation between the actions of rigid systems and the human body with its inherent complexity and variability. Pseudo-science!!

Great points, DM. :allgood:

Every now and then it happens, right Roger? :slight_smile:

Why did they not use the same angle for the comparison? Yes, I know there’s a speed difference but it looks like the pitching net is further in the first speed test. And there’s no way I’d spend over 200 bucks on something I could probably build with pvc pipe and other materials. The propeller thing was a bad example too, it’s called friction…

I find it hard to believe he threw 64 on a daily basis judging by his stature too. I guess you could call me skeptical.

Let me tell you about something I learned many moons ago, which did not require the use of any gadgets.
I used to go to the original Yankee Stadium every chance I got, and I would sit in the stands and watch the Yankees’ Big Three rotation in pregame practice and in the game itself. I noticed that all three of them were doing the same thing: they were driving off the lower half of the body, using the legs, the hips and the torso in one continuous (and seamless) motion, and that was how they were generating the power behind their pitches—even Eddie Lopat, who was by no means a fireballer. This made for a nonstop flow of energy all the way through the body, through the shoulder and arm to the fingertips, the result being that a lot of pressure was taken off said shoulder and arm—they were, it seemed, just going along for the ride, so those pitchers were actually throwing harder with less effort.
I watched them and I saw just how they were doing it. I made a note of this and started working on it on my own, and as I practiced this essential element of good mechanics (and this is true whether one is a fireballer or not) I found that I was doing the same thing they were doing—taking the pressure off the shoulder and arm so I could throw harder with less effort! Although I was not, and never would be, a fireballer, I could throw harder and a little faster, and because I was a natural, true sidearmer—one of those most infuriating pitchers—I discovered that my delivery had more snap to it, and my crossfire became more effective.
Now, if you absolutely have to have a gadget or something to work with, I suggest the “Hershiser” drill, which aims at getting the hips fully involved and which requires nothing more than a fence or a wall. 8) :slight_smile:

What the feet and legs do will determine how the hips rotate. As Roger said, it’s not a conscious movement. Properly timed hip rotation allows for maximum spine and shoulder torque which generates power and takes pressure off the arm.

The movement of the feet and legs actually start with the hips. The feet and legs are slave to the hips.

However, most players interpret spinning their feet as rotating their hips. Spinning is not what I view as rotation.

Many times you can watch the positioning of the feet and it will give you a clue to what the hips are “doing” or “trying to do”. When that happens, you wouldn’t focus on the feet but the hips.

Again, the focus should be placed on the hips controlling the feet and legs and not vice versa.

Absolutely. The feet should be dictated by hip rotation. I’ve seen guys use there feet to rotate their hips and wind up opening the hips too early, which in turn opens the shoulder early and throws off arm timing.

seems more like a great way to warm up the hips not really strengthen them

I find that rotational med ball throws and presses work really well for strengthening the hips.

Im surprised by the lack of interest or belief in the value of this product.

hip/shoulder separation, hip strength, core strength, speed & flexibility are critical to high velocity pitchers (or hitters).

From my observation this product addresses all of the above.

I can tell ya in a couple of weeks/months if its a valuable product/getting results. I’ve been wanting to get it for a while & just received delivery today ironically. I’m a golfer… 14 yr old son is a pitcher & golfer.

I can tell you without a question doing med ball twists has a dramatic impact on my golf game. 10-14 days of med ball twists & I feel like my timing is better & I get 5-8% more out of each club… 1 club difference on irons & 20-25 on drives. The bonus is the timing… the extra yardage feels effortless, which is key for me as I have an over aggressive swing.

Its the closest thing to a “magic pill” I know of & I hit golf balls at the range & look for advantages like no other.

If med ball twists provide those results I assume I’ll get the same w/ this product. I ponied up the 300+ (delivery) finally, I’m lazy & it looks like something I’d do on a regular basis vs med ball.

I’ll let ya know, but this one looks like a no brainer & something on my radar of “to buy” list for a while.

Well when you train something that previously has never been trained, good results often follow. Considering that untrained part was very crucial to rotational athletes, I would expect to see improvement. As for the machine, I don’t know. I simply doubt that pitchers with success at high levels use the sort of thing, it’s all how you train.

The problem with most players and hip rotation is:

  1. Segmenting the rotation between body parts.
  2. Stabilizing the hip region
  3. Mobility (flexibility + joint range of motion)
  4. 3 plane movement of the glute
  5. Projecting the center mass forward is where most players struggle. (Accelerating the center mass)
  6. Decelerating the center mass

Controlling the center mass is the separator for players. It’s often the difference between 85 and 95.

I don’t see this product accomplishing much, if any of the bullets mentioned.

Maybe there would be more interest if the kid actually got any H/S separation…