Help With Gyroball

Is there any pitchers that throw a gyroball, I need help and more understanding about the pitch since I just found out that I actually throw one…

Btw is there any tips If you lose rhythm and any way to gain it back?

I suggest that you use Alan Nathan’s webpage on the gyroball:

http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/gyro.html

Here’s the summary: A true gyroball pitch has highly symmetrical bullet-like spin, and its spin axis points in the same direction as the trajectory of the ball.

When this happens, there is actually no Magnus force on the ball, and it does not move to the left or right nor does it break down sharply.

Some folks have bent over backward to find the possible utility in such a pitch; however, it cannot possibly live up to it’s exotic-sounding name. “Gyro ball” means “gyroscopically stabilized”…like a spinning bullet in flight.

Since the gyroball comes in at about slider speed, but is very straight with no break other than the break from gravity…well, this would be a very hittable pitch if you were to use it with any regularity.

Some people (me, for one) think that sometimes “hung sliders” are just accidental gyroballs. A good slider has bullet-like spin too, but the spin axis is slightly off-center from the direction of flight, so they break.

I have long contended that the “gyroball” just doesn’t exist. What is being described is a flat slider, which is indeed very hittable, or a fast ball that doesn’t do anything, just comes in there right where the batter can get good wood on it: either way, the end result is BLAM! Over the fence it goes! The pitch Jim Leyritz drilled over the left-field wall in the eighth inning of Game 4 of the 1996 World Series was a nice example—a flat slider.
One would think that if a pitcher is looking for something unusual to throw batters off balance he would come up with something more esoteric. Like the “slip” pitch which I learned from Ed Lopat a long time ago—a slider thrown with a knuckleball grip. That’s a real killer of a pitch; you can use any of several different knuckleball grips for it, and you throw the slider with it, and you can get it to break any of several different ways depending on the grip—nasty! :slight_smile:

I dont really use it that Often, I use my 2 seamer much more since I can make it sink away and sink in.

Slider - cant be because its doesnt really break but it cuts and that because of my 3/4 slot

4 seam fastball - no backspin, so sidespin but gyrospin

gyroball - Probably isnt either because My arm dont pronate when pitching it, I release it like a normal fastball? imagine side arm 4 seam fastball and at the last movement, your index and middle finger cut under the ball and produce a gyro-like spin. I hold it across the narrowest part of the seam.

cutter - but It doesnt really have a cutting motion like that, its earlier and much more cut

catcher says its a fastball cause its faster than my 2 seamer
people who see it say its fastball
batters say its rising fastball since it doesnt drop or maybe that is caused by my 2 seamer

Just read in the article, cricket bowler usual try to throw it with a spiral. maybe thats me since I am a cricket bowler :slight_smile: oh well I will use it as a standard 4 seam fastball since its speed is faster than my 4 seam fastball and I can control it better since I cant really throw a 4 seamer.

Bad sliders are a great complement to good sliders.

to zito. does any MLB pitcher throw the slip pitch?

Btw check this out

gyroballer pitcher who know how to use it.

Zita, I’m not sure why you would contend that the gyroball doesn’t exist…it does. The pitch was designed by a highly respected computer scientist in Japan and the practical details for throwing the pitch were carefully worked out by a Japanese pitching coach who collaborated with him.

The real problem is not whether the pitch exists, or whether it is just a ‘special case’ of the slider, i.e., a hung slider…

The real problem for the gyroball is that it does not seem to be useful enough for very many pitchers to go to the trouble of learning how to throw one.

make sure you have a fastball, or that thing will not work.

only pitches i know of that work without a true fastball are the knickleball and the split finger. but every effective splitfinger guy i know of also has a respectable fastball.

fastball, don’t leave home without it.

Dusty is right but even though a knuck can be effective without a real fastball, a respectable fastball would make it even more effective.

dont worry I have 2 two-seam fastball

Jowen, there’s a very funny story about the slip pitch which I would like to share with you.
It begins with Paul Richards, who was a very good catcher and who also was renowned as a teacher of pitching. He had caught in the major leagues in the 1930, then disappeared into the minors, and in 1939 or so he surfaced as the playing manager of the Atlanta Crackers of the AA Southern Association. While he was there he had an old-time pitcher named Deacon Johnson who threw a bewildering pitch which, for what of a better name, he called a “slip” pitch. Of course, Richards wanted to know more about it, because he had to catch it, but Johnson was a selfish coot who wouldn’t even show it to his own manager! So Richards had to content himself with standing off to one side and watching Johnson and making notes until he was sure he had the thing down cold. And he vowed that if he ever made it to the majors as a manager he would teach that pitch to anyone who wanted to learn it.
In 1950 he got a call from the Chicago White Sox; they wanted him to come up to the majors and manage them. He came, and he brought this “slip” pitch with him, and he taught it to a few guys on his staff, most notably Harry Dorish and Skinny Brown who had some success with it when they could get it to work. The sportswriters were falling all over themselves trying to find out what it was, but nobody was talking, and so it was believed that this pitch would be forever a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
But what Richards did not know was that there was another pitcher who had been in the Southern Association at the same time who had seen that pitch thrown. He made a mental note for future reference. He came up to the White Sox in 1944 and spent four years being a good pitcher with a lousy team, and then he was traded to the Yankees and spent 7 1/2 being a very, very good pitcher with a great team. That pitcher was Ed Lopat. In 1953, after the All-Star break, he uncorked that pitch—and the batters started screaming blue murder, not that they hadn’t been doing so before, but now it was also arson, first degree burglary, armed robbery, grand larceny breaking pitch, and every other felony they could think of, because they couldn’t hit it any more than they could hit his other stuff! And then one day I went to a Yankee game, and after the game I caught up with Steady Eddie and I asked him—what was all the mystery about that slip pitch?
Lopat burst out laughing, and I got caught up in it, so there we were, standing outside Yankee Stadium, cracking up. When we were finally able to stop, he said, “I don’t get it. I just can’t understand what it is with these sportswriters, the way they come on, trying to make something arcane out of such a simple pitch.” And then he told me: “Get a knuckleball grip and throw the slider with it.” I had to agree that it was indeed a simple pitch. And then he added, in a quiet hypnotic undertone: 'You’ll know what to do with it."
Richards had said it was just another changeup, or a variation of the palm ball. But what Lopat told me, it was a real killer of a pitch, and if you have a good slider you can certainly throw this one. As far as I know, he was the last one to throw it. A short while later I learned that the pitchers on the other teams had stopped throwing it as soon as they heard he was using it. (Was it because the mystery about that pitch was no longer there?) Anyhow, that’s what it is—a slider thrown with a knuckleball grip, and you can use any of three of four different knuckler grips. It’s especially murderous thrown sidearm, which I did, and I used the crossfire as well. :slight_smile: :baseballpitcher:

I just learned the circle change up from the coach and the spin is almost similar to the gyro but different clock rotation so I think I can use Gyro as my stock pitch and mixing circle change up to mess batter up since it break down into right hander rather than cutting across. I will use my 2 seam fastball as a ground ball pitch or a strike out pitch. I can also throw 2 seam right from the start and get 2 easy strike early if I had command on the day. 2 seam that break low and away for a strike or cheap grounder, 2 seam that break low and in to jam batter, can waste a pitch outside with gyro since it does break outward or I can throw a change up that have same trajectory as my 2 seam fastball but break more and slower on the 2-0 count or 2-1 count.

[quote=“laflippin”]I suggest that you use Alan Nathan’s webpage on the gyroball:

http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/gyro.html

Here’s the summary: A true gyroball pitch has highly symmetrical bullet-like spin, and its spin axis points in the same direction as the trajectory of the ball.

When this happens, there is actually no Magnus force on the ball, and it does not move to the left or right nor does it break down sharply.

Some folks have bent over backward to find the possible utility in such a pitch; however, it cannot possibly live up to it’s exotic-sounding name. “Gyro ball” means “gyroscopically stabilized”…like a spinning bullet in flight.

Since the gyroball comes in at about slider speed, but is very straight with no break other than the break from gravity…well, this would be a very hittable pitch if you were to use it with any regularity.

Some people (me, for one) think that sometimes “hung sliders” are just accidental gyroballs. A good slider has bullet-like spin too, but the spin axis is slightly off-center from the direction of flight, so they break.[/quote]Even a fastball breaks down from drag and gravity. So a pitch that was perfectly straight would be hard to hit, in fact,to a hitter, it would appear to rise, just like the supposed “rising fastball” that gets over the batters bat. However, it seems like you couldn’t pitch a worse pitch up in the strikezone where the batter can see it well, but down low, i think it would be effective

The gyroball also drops due to the gravitational force–it is not a magical pitch that goes perfectly straight in the vertical plane. Gyroballs just don’t have any additional downward break due to Magnus force.

A Magnus force on a ball arises from spin, and it acts in the direction of spin; however, when the spin axis of the ball is exactly aligned with the direction of flight, the Magnus force = 0. (This is also why rifled barrels were designed: Rifling confers a spin axis to the bullet that is perfectly aligned with direction of flight, so there is no Magnus force to make a bullet curve away from its original trajectory. No matter what, though, the gravitational force on balls and bullets makes them drop toward the Earth.

Alan Nathan has bent over backwards to consider the potential value of a gyroball pitch, but it just doesn’t add up to something that is worth the trouble of learning: (1) To get bullet-like spin the pitcher clearly must “take something off”–that is, the pitch cannot be thrown as fast as a given pitcher’s fastball. (2) The gyroball will travel straight, i.e., not break laterally; however, (3) It is expected that the gyroball would break down, due to gravity, but with less downward break than a slider and more downward break than a fastball (whose spin-derived Magnus force does oppose the directional force of gravity).

So, in the end, after all of the trouble you might go through to perfect this pitch, you would have a “sllider-speed” pitch that doesn’t break to the side, and whose downward break due to gravity is intermediate between a fastball and a slider.

The “surprise-factor” wouldn’t last very long with this kind of a pitch, I reckon. Good hitters would likely catch on to this very quickly.

started my first game and pitched 4 perfect inning with the “gyroball” and I dont think its a trick pitch as it is basically a fastball. I use it as pitch that attack the batter and to set them up for my 2-seam fastball and changeup. I have used it to strike a few people out and the pitch doesnt actually sink in fact it sink less than a typical fastball.

“…as it is basically a fastball”

------Fastballs have backspin, the gyroball has bullet-like (or, if you like, spiral football-like) spin.

To get gyroball spin the pitcher needs to apply force to the side of the ball. You can’t get FB speed doing that, and you can’t get FB spin doing that.

More gyroballs are probably thrown accidentally, when the pitcher actually intended a slider, than on purpose.

I dont want to turn this into an argument so I am just going say im pitching a fastball with a weird spin happy? then how do you explain my “fastball” which is faster than my 2 seam fastball?

I’m not trying to create an argument either.

Here are some things you should try to understand about your “fastball with a weird spin/gyroball”…

  1. The actual gyroball has been studied intensively since its design in the mid-90’s by computer scientist Ryutaro Himeno and coach Kazushi Tezuka. There was a media blitz about it in the USA a few years back and almost everyone whose primary interest was selling newspapers and magazines got the details completely wrong. Himeno and Tezuka are not con men, they did not make the crazy claims that the news media spread around.

  2. Since its invention, partly in response to the many fantastic and bogus claims made by “investigative” reporters, the gyroball has been carefully studied and characterized by reputable US researchers–especially Univ of Illinois physicist Alan Nathan. Aside from applying the detailed physics of spinning balls to the gyroball problem, Nathan used the Pitch f/x system to understand the real behavior of the gyroball and to search for occurrences of the gyroball among the repertoires of MLB pitchers such as Daisuke Matsuzaka. His findings are peer-reviewed, published for all to see, and his conclusions are very compelling.

  3. Even more excruciating detail is understood about the characteristics and flight behavior of standard fastballs, which have been around for a very long time.

  4. So, against a reputable body of published and peer-reviewed knowledge that describes what gyroballs and fastballs actually are, you say “I throw a gyroball, or else I’m throwing a fastball with weird spin”. Do you see the problem with that set-up?

cant argue with science then :wink: I will just say my pitch is some sort of a fastball then.