Help- mph drop mid 90s to 70?! lower half- hips, push off?


#1

i use to throw mid 90s however after an thinking an injury was presumably the cause of my velocity drop to 70mph (first day back after the injury i was mid 80s and thought the injury must be the problem, not my lack of pitching for half a year) ive concluded that some bad advice i received from a trusted pitching coach after being frustrated with my mph loss had caused me to lose the muscle memory on how to use my lower half properly.
Here’s the video I took earlier

Side view 50% may not be helpful

i have a sideways dragline (use to be straight), and complete lack of feeling of power in my back side (use to almost flip me onto my face), my long toss cant even break 200 feet now (use to be 300+)

ive watched tons of video and understand the basics of the lower half but when do i initiate the hips? how do i initiate the hip fire? i need some drills or step by step mechanics to practice because its just not happening with what ive been doing. ive tried everything from swinging a bat on the mound
to get the feeling to jumping sideways and firing the hips, and stupid things in between, and cant find that feeling again.

if you have any ideas for good pitching coaches or other ideas it would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!

*i taught myself to throw lefty thinking it was the injury righty that didn’t allow me to get back to where I was, I have the same issue lefty, here’s a rear shot video


#2

Post video and I’m sure you will get some good feedback here - without actually seeing what you are doing, it is almost impossible to tell you what to do better (or what to change/stop doing).


#3

Yea, post some video and I am sure you will get some good advice…

Good Luck


#4

I edited it and posted video, thanks


#5

Have you tried the Hershiser drill? You seem to be not using your glutes, which causes your arm separation to be poor, which results in decreased velocity.

A question though I don’t want you to take it personally. Were you ever gunned in the mid 90’s by multiple radar guns, or were you just gunned for the first time in the 80/70’s and assumed you weren’t throwing as hard?


#6

I’l give that a shot, I’m up for trying anything at this point. Yes I was gunned by numerous scouts and colleges numerous times at 90+, then after the injury, first day back was mid 80s and within 2 months 70ish (radared as well)


#7

Basically, you just looked almost lost, without intent from that video. It was brief, but I think that shows that right now you purposely need to be aggressive with your legs. Hershiser drill will help you with that some.


#8

It looks like you’re very slow on your way to foot plant. I could be wrong, but I think you might be restricting your hip movement because of how low you are when you release the ball. This might be a result of too long of a stride. Whether it’s a problem or not, I don’t know, but it you haven’t already tried shortening your stride and staying taller it’s worth a shot.

Here’s a drill that might help.


#9

It’s only one pitch to look at, but you don’t have any shoulder/hip separation. They both rotate together so maybe your core has lost some strength by no longer torquing through. I remember learning to pitch and actually throwing much slower while using more of that proper separation because I had no strength around my core.

So if none of the help above works, try and show a little bit more of your back as you begin your stride, or hold your arm down/back a millisecond longer before slotting in. Not to throw more junk into your mechanics, just to do whatever it takes to feel your shoulders get more cocked in relation to your hips. Then settle into whatever is most natural again.


#10

Another thing, were you off the mound for a long time? Just feel laggy despite your workout regiment?

You might need some underload training with a light ball to refamiliarize your muscles with explosive action.


#11

Thanks, I tried that hershiser drill and it seems useful, but it makes the problem more pronounced. My back hip having trouble rotating before front foot plant. If anyone has an drills for this I’d be very grateful.
I had to take 6 months off from throwing, but it’s been a couple years since the injury. Unfortunately no one told me my mechanics were the problem so I didn’t know.


#12

It looks very mechanical/deliberate. I agree with prior posters that you don’t have any hip/shoulder separation. Do some NPA wall drills to build some flexibility.

You’re not getting your head over your front knee before you release the ball. You should feel like you have a puffy chest and you’re trying to push it as far forward as you can before you release the ball.

Your front leg is not bracing and the knee continues to drift base your ankle. It is more pronounced on flat ground. This in combination with not getting your head forward enough, causes you to “squat” which is a velocity killer.

You look very tense. I couldn’t get the video to stop to see how far your arm lays flat at MER but I would suspect it doesn’t get all the way back.

Your hand reaches the high position way before your front foot touches down so you’ve lost your arm momentum.

Off the mound, at foot strike, your spine angle is still tilted backwards (you’re throwing uphill).

Take care,
Al


#13

Thanks Al I know some of those, problems are because my hip won’t fire and I can’t get my body into the proper positions. I also put my arm up sooner to maintain arm health when my body isnt consistently doing what it should be


#14

Your hips are difficult to fire because of the “pitching uphill”.

Your back hip is actually lower than your front hip.

Fix your landing position (get your back hip higher than your front hip), and you’ll find it alot easier to turn.

take care,
Al


#15

I’m not really sure how to do that, I thought because of the mound my front side would automatically be lower. But I’ve been trying numerous things and still no luck, currently I’m trying to basically squish the bug then pop my hip, it atleast gets my backfoot pointing to the target when I throw but no hip fire still


#16

I think you just need a lot of work to remind yourself of how to turn your hips and trunk fast and powerfully, I see that on your foot strike you hips dont ever have a powerful turning motion, don’t adjust anything else till you start to find this energy!


#17

I can’t stand to hear stories like this… you clearly knew how to throw hard in the past if you actually did ever throw in the 90s…

I don’t know how you just forget how to do that…my guess is you came back throwing 86 that first day and weren’t quite back to where you had been simply due to arm strength not being built up to where it was.

then for some reason or another you trusted a pitching coach to give you mechanical advice. Why he thought he could improve your efficiency when you had thrown in the 90s beforehand is beyond me. You believed him and followed his advice and in the process ruined yourself. Now you are completely mind fucked and overthinking your mechanics.

If I was you I would try to think back to how you used to throw. Probably more fluid and just letting it fly. How did the pitching coach not question why you were throwing 20 mph slower? how did you not question him?

so many parts of this story frustrate me.


#18

Good morning, lankylefty.
I know exactly what you mean by “stories like this”—I’ve seen enough of them, and they do more than just frustrate me; they make me want to go through the roof and scream any and all kinds of imprecations, invectives and just plain cusswords, all directed at pitching coaches who do nothing but “screw the pooch” as the saying goes. Especially pitching coaches who should know better.
Consider the case of a guy named Fred Sanford. Many moons ago he was a pitcher for the old St. Louis Browns, and he wasn’t a bad pitcher, albeit he toiled for the lousiest team in all of baseball. This was back in the 1940s. Well, the Yankees saw something in him—after all, he wasn’t a bad pitcher—and they acquired him in a trade. But then the trouble began. Sanford had a motion best described as herky-jerky, and never mind that he was getting the batters out, he offended the esthetic sensibilities of two coaches—Yankees pitching coach Jim Turner, who really should have known better, and third-base coach Frank Crosetti, who really had no business getting mixed up in this. Those two didn’t like it at all. They wanted Sanford to have a smooth, spalding Guide-perfect motion, and so they started futzing around with him. And they ended up destroying him; when they got through with him he wasn’t a good pitcher any more. At the end of the 1950 season he was traded to another team.
What Turner and Crosetti did was “screw the pooch”. And here’s an ironic twist: after the 1959 season Turner went to Cincinnati and became their pitching coach, and he had on his staff a reliever named Howie Nunn whose delivery was even more extreme. Nunn wiggled and wabbled and jumped around like a jackrabbit on steroids and threw his arms and his legs and his neck and just about every other part of his anatomy into his delivery, and it looked awfully funny—except to the opposing batters who had to face him, because he got very good stuff on his pitches and was getting the batters out! And Turner never said “boo” to him.
Your advice to this correspondent was sound. He should think back to what he had been doing earlier that enabled him to get the speed he had had before and work on it. That coach had no business messing around with him, trying to change his delivery or whatever—you just don’t do that, not if it’s working! You iknow, way back in the day I had a wise and wonderful pitching coach who firmly believed that every pitcher has a natural motion, and what he did was work with that pitcher to maximize his or her capabilities. He saw that I was a natural sidearmer, and I had picked up the crossfire, and he helped me refine it and expand my repertoire to compensate for the fact that I didn’t have a fast ball to speak of. And I did all right for more than 20 years. 8) :slight_smile:


#19

i didnt question him because hes extremely reputable and i agreed that it is logical to try new mechanics and not instantly have your body work optimally. by the time i realized that was incorrect for me (over a year later) and it was the mechanics and not my injury causing my failure to get my velocity back, i dont remember how to create that power in my lower half. regardless of how much i dont think about it mechanics and how hard i try to throw, my muscle memory is incorrect now and it doesn’t work like it use to
so im trying to figure out how i can recreate the proper muscle memory. im finally got a number of a respected pitching coach so hopefully something with give this week when we meet.


#20

It’s back to square one. Hopefully the pitching coach you’ll be meeting with this week is a guy who really knows his elbow from third base, and if he does you’ll be getting off to a good start.
A couple of years ago I did a presentation on pitching coaches for the regional SABR chapter in Cleveland, and I sort of took everybody on a trip to the zoo. I talked about four different varieties of pitching coaches—the ones who could both do and teach, the ones who couldn’t do but who could teach, the ones who could do but couldn’t teach, and the ones who couldn’t do either. I don’t know which category your previous pitching coach fell into, but I suspect that his particulararea of expertise (?) was screwing the pooch, and he certainly seems to have done that with you. I have nothing but suspicions regarding the ones who change a pitcher’s mechanics wholesale, without even stopping to consider whether such maneuvering will help a pitcher.
I’ve spoken often enough about Fred Sanford and how he got messed up by two coaches whose esthetic sensibilities were offended by his herky-jerky motion. Some people have never heard of “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Again, I wish you the best of luck with your new pitching coach and I hope he can help you get back on the right track. 8)