Help, don't know who to listen to

OK, so, I have been looking for a solid 4th pitch that wont injure my already fragile arm, and i heard that the “gyroball” was actually thought up so that there would be an effective out pitch that would not take a huge toll on the pitchers arm, and after hearing this, i went out and learned how to throw it, and i throw it really well, and both my private instructors, and alot of others, say that i should keep throwing it, as a 4th pitch anyway, but today i talked with the head trainer at my college, and he informed me that the gyroball is actually worse for your arm than many other pitchers, bcuz when you throw it, you throw it just as hard as a fastball, but in the mooment b4 you release it, you have to turn your arm over, like throwing a screwball, and he said that would take a serious toll on my shaky elbow and shoulder.

Now i dont know who to believe, i know that its very effective, and a great out pitch, but now i have doubts bcuz of what the trainer told me. Can any of you help me out???

if you have 3 quality pitches, you do not need a 4th. if you are looking for a 4th one of your other pitches must be weak, which one is it? work on that pitch instaed of developing a new one or replace your weak pitch with the gyro or whatever you call it. i know very little about it other than it is a back up slider (a slider that is expected to move and doesn’t). this is a tough pitch to master.

i would look at a sinker to get something going the other way.

that’s what i think.

well my fastball is upper 80’s with usualy very good control, the slider is my most effective by far, like 80mph with a hard and sharp break, and my circle change locates well and drops off the table, so to answer your question, no they are not weak, but college hitters foul off alot more 2 strike pitches than anyone ive competed with b4, and i would prefer a fourth pitch

sounds to me like you’re just fine if you have 3 quality pitches. you might try a “bugs bunny” change up. you throw it extremely slow to see if they’ll swing through it. i think you’re a great candidate for the sinker. sinkers usually get a nice ground ball hit off the label or handle when it’s going good. there really arn’t many big league pitchers that use 4 pitches but if you can do it that would be a plus.

good luck

You don’t have a curve?
What about varients of the fb like Dusty mentioned. You know if you are throwing a plus slider, take some spin off and it will be a back-up slide piece (Same arm motion…just looks like it…doesn’t break). Getting into a technically sophisticated pitch like a screwgie or gyro may distract your concentration. I’d, A) listen to your coach (First and foremost) and B) I’d look for variants on a decent fb (Upper 80’s is good). If you can cut it and sink it with a 4 and a 2 seam you’ve got pretty great variety with less arm impact (Or potentially if they are thrown correctly)…with a sound change you’d only have to “show” your breaking stuff. At UNF they want 4 pitches, expect you to hit your spots with them: fb, curve, slide piece and change. Dusty Rhodes thinks that having both the slide and curve means that on the day when one isn’t working the other usually does.

A screwball is a perfectly safe pitch. Therefore, so is your gyroball.

Both Greg Maddux’s FB and CH are variations of a screwball.

Can you advise me of what physique best fits you?

I’m assuming that your college level build and maturity.

I noticed in your first sentence that you said:
[color=blue]Posted: Feb 14, 2008 Post subject: Help, don’t know who to listen to.

OK, so, I have been looking for a solid 4th pitch that wont injure my already fragile arm, [/color]

Who told you this - that you have an already fragile arm? Is this something that is self-imposed by your own “feelings” or is this something that your doctor/trainer/parents/etc., told you? THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Also, you said:
i talked with the head trainer at my college, and he informed me …

Were you told by someone to go? Does your pitching coach know of your visit? Do you have scheduled meetings periodically with your pitching staff -(rotation & coaches) in addition to visits to the trainer, physical conditioning -whirl-pool soaking, rub-downs, steam locker/suna schedules, and so on.

Also, who tracks your health and related issues. Pitchers especially at the college level - even small colleges, usually have a sensivtive approach to overall health maintenance.

6’5’’ 259lbs. Body fat percentage around 12. That help?

I had to have surgury to repair an avulsion fractur in my elbow when i was thirteen, the tunnel for the tendon is ver small now, and bcuz of this, i a very suceptable(cant remember how to spell that) to bad tendinitis. Also, I have had shoulder problems, bursitis and tendinitis.
I dont know many 18 year olds with the arm of a 40 year old.

And i talked to the trainer on my own, im trying to prevent having to take time of again bcuz of my arm. And yes, i told my pitching coach, before hand, and he agreed i should see him.

And yes, the pitching staff has meetings at least once a week. And i go to the trainer everyday, whether we have a practice/game or not, to get my shoulder stretched out (and for my knee rehab, but thats a different story)

[quote=“jdfromfla”]You don’t have a curve?
What about varients of the fb like Dusty mentioned. You know if you are throwing a plus slider, take some spin off and it will be a back-up slide piece (Same arm motion…just looks like it…doesn’t break). Getting into a technically sophisticated pitch like a screwgie or gyro may distract your concentration. I’d, A) listen to your coach (First and foremost) and B) I’d look for variants on a decent fb (Upper 80’s is good). If you can cut it and sink it with a 4 and a 2 seam you’ve got pretty great variety with less arm impact (Or potentially if they are thrown correctly)…with a sound change you’d only have to “show” your breaking stuff. At UNF they want 4 pitches, expect you to hit your spots with them: fb, curve, slide piece and change. Dusty Rhodes thinks that having both the slide and curve means that on the day when one isn’t working the other usually does.[/quote]

I throw 2 and 4 seam fastballs. But no, no curve, i can throw it(big 12-6 hook), and throw it well, but it aggrivates old injuries, so i try to shy away from it

Thank you for responding to my questions. Based on what you’ve told me, would you please answer these:

Have you been in a “bulking up” program, either on you own or as part of a conditioning program?
Have you left a football or other contact sport program and picked up baseball as another sport to play?
Can you - from a standing position, bend over a the waist and touch your toes without bending your knees?
Would you happen to know what your best time was running the 60 yard dash?
Would you describe yourself as “big boned”? If you don’t know one way or the other it’s not important.

The reason for my asking these questions, in addition to the previous ones, is because I had a player two years ago that had almost the identical senario that you have now. Our coaching staff was able to pick up a lot of things that helped him later on, even life issues beyond baseball.

Coach B.

[quote=“Coach Baker”]Thank you for responding to my questions. Based on what you’ve told me, would you please answer these:

Have you been in a “bulking up” program, either on you own or as part of a conditioning program?
Have you left a football or other contact sport program and picked up baseball as another sport to play?
Can you - from a standing position, bend over a the waist and touch your toes without bending your knees?
Would you happen to know what your best time was running the 60 yard dash?
Would you describe yourself as “big boned”? If you don’t know one way or the other it’s not important.

The reason for my asking these questions, in addition to the previous ones, is because I had a player two years ago that had almost the identical senario that you have now. Our coaching staff was able to pick up a lot of things that helped him later on, even life issues beyond baseball.

Coach B.[/quote]

–No, no bulking program. I de-stress in the gym, and college is very stressful, so you can tell i am in there alot.
—No, no football. Played baseketball until i was 16, but i dont have great knees, so i had to stop.
—Yes, i can put almost my whole hand under my foot, I am very flexible.
–60 time, I am not sure, but i would say average, for my size.
—Moderatly big boned.

My suggestion here is based on a combination of health issues and position assignment.

You may want to ask your infield coach if the club needs a backup for first base. Your height and physique is a plus for you, in addition to asking your batting coach to give you some extra time in the cages.

The loads on your frame, from what I can gather from this limited media, is not going to serve you or your club well at the pitcher’s position. Again, this is my appraisal based on nothing more than your narration of your health issues. Without actually being there to read and discuss your history, it’s difficult to assess beyond this posting.

With respect to your club’s management of your situation – health wise, normally pitchers like yourself are regarded as high maintenance. Hence, liaison with trainers and coaches depends a lot on you and your self discipline, follow up by trainers and coaches and their administrative discipline, and even some correspondence between the college administration and their legal representation.

Based on the foregoing paragraph, consider a broader environment than just you and your baseball experience –pitching. Would it be fair to assume that a player with your history and current situation would be in a college’s regular game plan (rotation) and that time, money, and personnel would be dedicated to …”bring you along”… based on your level of talent … as compared to the others in your bullpen? Would you as a coach – pitching coach, devote time and consideration to your contribution? If you can honestly say to yourself – “yes, in my mind I am durable, ready, and with an endurance factor that my body supports 100%”, … then I say you know yourself well enough and with a loyalty factor that supports your coach(s) and their efforts … continue with pitching.

On the other hand, if the answer to that same question is …”…ahhh, I guess so…?”, then seek a position as a first baseman and spend some extra hours in the batting cages. By the way, players with your build make excellent CONTACT hitters. And CONTACT hitters can be depended upon to give a club that RBI just when they need it the most.

Coach B.