Good stuff

Here is a link to some good stuff I think would be beneficial to some of the guys here on this forum:

http://www.youtube.com/user/douglasbryantwhite#p/u/2/uF4tFjv92DI

http://www.youtube.com/user/douglasbryantwhite#p/u/0/D1nNYqgp2nA

Enjoy!

Where can I get a mound like that? That looks pretty nice.

I just emailed back and forth with Dave and asked him to join LTP. Hopefully he will :slight_smile:

that guy is good. he has worked with some of the same people i have worked with. the cardinals have a good pitching program.

Brief but overall some good stuff. Clearly many influences in what he teaches. He mentioned Strom and Nyman and I saw a number of House-isms and even an O’Leary-ism.

You make it.
1 14’ 2x8 pressure treated 1 pressure treated 8’ 2x8, 1 piece of 3/4" 4’x8’ plywood (Fir is more solid imo), a door handle available at hardware stores, the axle and wheels are availble there also (If not they can be snatched from say an old lawn mower) and a good, say 8’x8’ piece of indoor/outdoor carpet, a handfull of wood screws, some glue and good stable gun and viola. Get handy…get busy.

I couldn’t find anything to disagree with. Nice understanding of what the body does in the delivery.

Overall i found these videos to be very good…he explains things simply and concisely, and packs a lot of information into a short time.

One thing that made me scratch my head a little was that he seems to be a little over concerned with velocity. He goes so far as to say that he isnt concerned with a 10 or 11 year old pitcher throwing strikes, or fielding the ball, as long as he is throwing hard. While i understand what his intent is, isnt it counterproductive to be encouraging young pitchers to throw it as hard as they can, results be damned? And isnt it dangerous to advise kids not to worry about fielding? They are already exposed, being only 40 or so feet from homeplate when the pitch is delivered. Im not sure i’d be comfortable with some coach telling my son to end in a bad fielding position, just to gain a couple fof MPH.

[quote=“southcarolina”]
One thing that made me scratch my head a little was that he seems to be a little over concerned with velocity. He goes so far as to say that he isnt concerned with a 10 or 11 year old pitcher throwing strikes, or fielding the ball, as long as he is throwing hard. While i understand what his intent is, isnt it counterproductive to be encouraging young pitchers to throw it as hard as they can, results be damned? And isnt it dangerous to advise kids not to worry about fielding? They are already exposed, being only 40 or so feet from homeplate when the pitch is delivered. Im not sure i’d be comfortable with some coach telling my son to end in a bad fielding position, just to gain a couple fof MPH.[/quote]

I agree with you … and this is probably the one area where many pro and college pitching coaches that I know (including myself) have a tough time with in terms of “dialing back” their instruction for the youth-age pitcher.

[quote=“southcarolina”]Overall i found these videos to be very good…he explains things simply and concisely, and packs a lot of information into a short time.

One thing that made me scratch my head a little was that he seems to be a little over concerned with velocity. He goes so far as to say that he isnt concerned with a 10 or 11 year old pitcher throwing strikes, or fielding the ball, as long as he is throwing hard. While i understand what his intent is, isnt it counterproductive to be encouraging young pitchers to throw it as hard as they can, results be damned? And isnt it dangerous to advise kids not to worry about fielding? They are already exposed, being only 40 or so feet from homeplate when the pitch is delivered. Im not sure i’d be comfortable with some coach telling my son to end in a bad fielding position, just to gain a couple fof MPH.[/quote]

My opinion…

He has fielders. Let them field. If you are worried about getting hit with a line drive from 40’, I think you could do a good enough job of protecting yourself if you end up as he shows.

To me the “good fielding position” is way overrated.

I would rather think of this in terms of long term player development.

If you want your kid to be a little league strike thrower, then by all means do whatever it takes to get them to throw the ball over the plate. It’s a lot less stressful and a lot more enjoyable for both player and parent.

But you will be limiting their long term potential. Eventually…they will be done with baseball because they don’t have the arm strength. Especially as a pitcher.

But if you want to raise the ceiling on a players throwing potential. Get them to throw at the highest capability their genetics will allow, then you have to be willing to take a step back in terms of accuracy (maybe), to get the body to know what it feels like to really let loose and throw the ball hard. You can learn how to “pitch” later on while throwing hard and accurately.

I think you will go a lot farther down the baseball road with that approach.

My 2 cents.

I respectfully disagree.
I’ll use my son as an example …he’s always had superior arm strength, I attribute it to fundemental soundness early, also, one aspect of pitching is fielding, we never spent any extra time on it, nor getting this “throw the #$%^& thing” as a main topic early, we worked for as high a level of mechanical soundness as possible (While he and I threw most every day until he was a sr in hs…so his arm health and vitality were there), while learning proper conditioning and arm health and maintenance. He learned when his body delivered the ball in it’s most efficient manner, it did a couple of things, A) He threw his fastest B) He did it near effortlessly C) He had the most movement he could get. As he became more mature he has become more and more conditioned and his velocity has climbed accordingly. Now as a college sophmore he can deliver the ball in a very competitve way with solid velocity but he also has a “complete package” so his learning curve is much shorter, he has a better idea and thought when it comes to strategic and tactical thinking, understands where he is on the field, can speak and understand a high level discouse in order to adjust his mechanics, because he’s been oriented towards that body awareness. Even Dusty mentions Maddux throwing to a spot on a wall in repitition of thousands of times…not that he goes out there and without thought of where it goes just whaling 100 shots into a net with all his might. The high tier guys I’ve been associated with want repeatability as early as possible, with that they believe they can develop higher velocities in concert with the pitchers development. Speaking of Maddux…how many pitches has he saved his arm because of his very excellent fielding?..over 26 or so years as a pitcher…hs and LL included.
It’s where I’ve always diverged from SetPro amd others who advocate for this extreme effort early. My personal opinion is that sustained max effort should not be the focus until the body is physically cabable of sustaining it with the minimum in recovery, over time. Pre-puberty imo should be all about getting the body to understand proper delivery and the pitcher learns how to maintain his arm over time…who the heck cares if the kid is a mph faster if he isn’t doing it right or that he’s doing it out of control (imo increasing potential for injury). I can’t think of another athletic motion where it is taught to go at the maximum the body can produce…prior to perfection of the fundemental skill.

One other after thought I might mention, he (my son) was able to break concrete blocks as a 12 year old…he broke many of them, he didn’t learn how to do that by seeing how many times he could slam his hand down on the brick as hard as he could, he was taught proper technique, he went through the process many many times in fundemental repitition and then when he was properly prepared he sliced it like bread (Got a picture of him breaking his first one on my YouTube channel :wink: )…in his same class I saw adults fail at it time and again because their technique was bad.

[quote=“101mph”]

My opinion…

He has fielders. Let them field. If you are worried about getting hit with a line drive from 40’, I think you could do a good enough job of protecting yourself if you end up as he shows.

To me the “good fielding position” is way overrated.

I would rather think of this in terms of long term player development.

If you want your kid to be a little league strike thrower, then by all means do whatever it takes to get them to throw the ball over the plate. It’s a lot less stressful and a lot more enjoyable for both player and parent.

But you will be limiting their long term potential. Eventually…they will be done with baseball because they don’t have the arm strength. Especially as a pitcher.

But if you want to raise the ceiling on a players throwing potential. Get them to throw at the highest capability their genetics will allow, then you have to be willing to take a step back in terms of accuracy (maybe), to get the body to know what it feels like to really let loose and throw the ball hard. You can learn how to “pitch” later on while throwing hard and accurately.

I think you will go a lot farther down the baseball road with that approach.

My 2 cents.[/quote]

Like i said i understand where he is coming from, in terms of long term goals. And since i am not a coach, or a player, or a paid instructor, all i can apply this (or any) info to is my own son, who is ten. He has one of the stronger arms among ten year olds in his league (and this league is a very competitive league…we have won 3 State Championships and had 2 other State First Runners Up in 3 age groups in the past two years) but he struggles with control. We have been working on some of his mechanical issues (bad glove side arm managment, waaaay too much shoulder tilt) recently, but getting the ball anywhere near the strikezone can be a challenge some days. And im not just talking about missing by a few inches. Im talking about throwing the ball 5 feet over the batters head, or bouncing a ball 3 feet in front of homeplate. I fail to see how throwing the ball harder, or faster is going to help him in this situation. When he starts getting wild, what i have found helps him is to step off, take a deep breath and throw a strike, no matter what he has to to do to do it. Then once the first strike is thrown, he can ratcheting up the velocity again.

I guess what im saying is that i think there are times when going all out is beneficial. When my son has his control working, he can throw the ball hard enough that he can overmatch 95% of the batters he faces. One thing i am starting to notice in my son is that there are times when he lets up. He gets a batter 0-2 and then has trouble finishing him off because all he is thinking about is throwing a strike, instead of letting his natural athletic ability take over. But there are times when a kid just learning to pitch needs to slow down, take a deep breath and not try to blister the radar gun.

No where did I say not to try and achieve mechanical efficiency. Or just blindly go out there and start wailing away without a plan.

In other words, I feel that if you are able to throw the ball hard, that you have pretty efficient mechanics (for your body and they way you’re nervous system organizes itself… it may not look like what someone thinks it should look like, but it works for you in this manner). So to get there, there has to be some sort monitoring with adjustments are being made and worked through.

The intent of my post was more to address that some people are too worried about results at a young age (the ability to throw strikes and get the ball over the plate regardless of how those strikes are achieved) rather than just letting a kid develop, be athletic, and work on his arm strength.

Conditioning (whether it’s through just playing catch, band work, weight lifting or climbing a jungle gym) has to be incorporated. It’s a long term plan, and the body will get there as it matures.

How far you let it get, i.e wherever “there” is, is determined a lot by how you develop and foster “it” at an early age.

[quote=“101mph”]No where did I say not to try and achieve mechanical efficiency. Or just blindly go out there and start wailing away without a plan.

In other words, I feel that if you are able to throw the ball hard, that you have pretty efficient mechanics (for your body and they way you’re nervous system organizes itself… it may not look like what someone thinks it should look like, but it works for you in this manner). So to get there, there has to be some sort monitoring with adjustments are being made and worked through.

The intent of my post was more to address that some people are too worried about results at a young age (the ability to throw strikes and get the ball over the plate regardless of how those strikes are achieved) rather than just letting a kid develop, be athletic, and work on his arm strength.

Conditioning (whether it’s through just playing catch, band work, weight lifting or climbing a jungle gym) has to be incorporated. It’s a long term plan, and the body will get there as it matures.

How far you let it get, i.e wherever “there” is, is determined a lot by how you develop and foster “it” at an early age.[/quote]

I would wholeheartedly agree that results are not always the main goal, but there has to be some sort of balance between development and results. Using one or the other to 100% determine “success” isnt a good formula, IMO

:applause:

this is that tough question we get around to a couple of times a year. you have to throw strikes to pitch which requires you to remain under some body control. and a fundamental long term goal of youth baseball is to build arm strength. you do that by throwing hard. i firmly believe in the alternating bullpen system and throwing your youth pitcher 5 to 6 times per week (not in game situation. one short outing in league and 5 to 7 innings on a weekend during season is plenty of game situation. i’m talking about good ol bullpen work. i like to work on arm strength throwing into a short net (about 20 ft away max and i’ve had them as close as 8 to 10 feet when space was limited. get a bucket of 25 to 50 balls, get good and loose, and cut it loose for 25 pitches and add 10 each week till you’re up to at least 75.

if you’re not too sore the next day, throw a 70% bullpen to a net working on location and mechanics. this is free and easy and should really feel nice when you’re done. if you’re too sore after velocity bullpen, back up some, you’re throwing too many pitches. alternate this with one day per week off.

i think our kids simply do not throw enough in a supervised setting so they’re doing it exactly right. as long as your mechanics are good (not perfect), and you’re not getting pain, throw the baseball. if i kid wants to be good, he has to throw more than just during team practice. this is where most wanna be’s fail. they only expect to throw at practice and during games. this just doesn’t happen unless you are a freak.

[quote=“dusty delso”] i like to work on arm strength throwing into a short net (about 20 ft away max and i’ve had them as close as 8 to 10 feet when space was limited. get a bucket of 25 to 50 balls, get good and loose, and cut it loose for 25 pitches and add 10 each week till you’re up to at least 75.

if you’re not too sore the next day, throw a 70% bullpen to a net working on location and mechanics. this is free and easy and should really feel nice when you’re done. if you’re too sore after velocity bullpen, back up some, you’re throwing too many pitches. alternate this with one day per week off.

[/quote]

Is this what you would advocate for a pitcher who is only 10?

Also, most everyone now advocates erring on the side of caution with pitchcounts for kids. How is throwing in a bullpen less stressful on a young arm than in a game? Is it simply the difference mentally or psychologically in that a bullpen session doesnt have the pressure of a game? It would seem to me that a pitch thrown in a game would physically stress a pitchers arm the same as in a bullpen. (Bear in mind that i never played an inning of organized baseball, so its possible im completely off base here)

i think there is a tremendous difference in throwing bullpens and game situatios. bullpens begin slow and easy, move to 70% maximum, then a kimited amount of full speed work on a velocity day that gradually builds to about 120% of the workload you expecta pitcher to perform in a game. always over prepare for battle.

game situation is full tilt from the first pitch. much different. on the 70% days you never throw maximum velocity. this is where you learn to pitch in my opinion.

used this program with my guy beginning at 9 yrs, and continued till he was 16. threw pain free until he was 15 and came down with tendonitis after throwing 27 innings in one week playing in perfect game tournament and a showcase back to back. we tried just throwing competitively without bullpen work thinking it would balance out and it didn’t. he was on the shelf for 8 weeks but it was the best thing that happened in the long run. we are on a strict jobe, core and stretching program and have had no problems since. he doesn’t pitch now since he moved behind the plate.

the short net throwing beginning in jan. is the primary reason he has arm strength. i really believe in it.