Glove to body?

I think I do something mechanically wrong in my delivery I tuck and pull which is what I’ve heard is mechanically wrong. I’ve heard of forearm roll and pinch but that confusses me alot. Could someone explain the forearm roll and pinch or equal and opposite to me?

Is this a good example of forearm roll and pinch?

http://www.pitchingclips.com/players/joba_chamberlain.htm

Trying to understand all assets of the Art of pitching.

Try going to the pitcher video clips and look at Randy Johnson from the side-view: Most (not all, but most) elite pitchers stabilize their glove out front, somewhere over their stride foot, and bring their torso forward to the glove. Notice in the slo-mo video that Johnson’s glove is stable over his stride leg and his chest is clearly tracking forward to meet his glove.

Seen by the unaided eye in real time this event occurs so quickly that it may look functionally equivalent to “pulling the glove into the body”. However, “pulling the glove back” and “bringing the torso to the glove” are not the same thing–they have very different consequences:

Pulling the glove side back towards the body creates a small momentum vector away from home plate and may tend to make you fall off somewhat towards the glove side. Whether you realize it or not, you must compensate for that extra motion at your release point.

Stabilizing the glove out front and tracking forward to meet the glove with your torso allows you to direct all of your momentum where it is supposed to go: To the target.

Ok well I love the equal and opposite thing with the forarm roll and pinch I did a couple throws and it feels alot better for a arm action and upper body rotation. I’m going to stick with it I think I really like it easier to transfer the energy up the chain to the arm.

This will also improve your timing and help you delay shoulder rotation.

Yes I think it’s a great thing that should be taught to all people. The pieces of my mechanics are now all falling in place just like I want.

Ok when watching some video I noticed some pitchers bring the chest to the glove how is this done?

Joba Chamberlain does bring the chest to the glove while forearm rollover and pinch.

After your shoulders rotate forward the middle of your torso should be tracking straight toward home plate.

Instead of pulling your glove into your body after “forearm rollover and pinch”, just stabilze it out in front, about over your stride foot, and let your torso come forward to your glove.

It might feel weird for awhile–it takes lots and lots of reps to change an old habit.

If you want to learn this, and I recommend it highly, you should consciously remind yourself to stabilize your glove out front on every throw until it becomes second nature.

Again, look for side-views video of Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez, Nolan Ryan, and many, many others–their gloves are generally stabilized out in front until after the ball has been released.

It is a very hard to even think of doing what joba does how he holds it hout and also pinches the shoulder blade down. I can’t seem the get it perfect at all. I Forearm rollover and pinch but I pull the glove somewhat towards the hip or side.

Also when trying to stabilize it out front my front arm doesn’t want to pinch very hard thing to do. What are all the benefits of Forearm rollover and pinch? I know it’s mechanically sound but what’s the point?

It goes loose and seems like my scapula on both sides then do not stay pinched and i rotate the arm to throw before I face up is there anyway to stop this?

RIStar,

I think it’s great that you are so highly motivated to delve deeply into pitching mechanics issues that many pitchers never consider, no matter how long (or short) they play.

In all sincerity, I think you are doing yourself a disservice at some level by trying to learn everything you need to know via the internet. If you were getting high-quality hands-on coaching and mentoring from a truly knowledgeable pitching coach–one who would take the time to look carefully at the mechanics, sequencing, and timing of your pitching motion and who would then help you to create a priority list of things for you to work on, and help you with the specific drills and conditioning work you need to accomplish your goals…you’d be far ahead of the game right now.

I’m sure you are getting some coaching from somewhere, but I’m not so sure you are getting quality help with all of the many excellent questions you raise. Please don’t misunderstand me, I think the advice you are getting at this forum is generally of very high quality. If it helps steer your thinking in directions that are useful to you, then that is about as much as you can expect.

However, at some point–and I personally think you’ve probably arrived at that point–you need to supplement the written advice you are getting here with live, hands-on coaching from somebody whose authority and ability with the subject you can trust.

About 5 years ago I knew as much about pitching mechanics as I knew about quantum mechanics. I still don’t know very much about quantum mechanics, but my son became interested in pitching so I set out to learn as much as I could about the subject–at 8 to 9 years old he certainly was not going to be able to read and comprehend the mountains of written literature on pitching mechanics…the boy just wanted to throw the ball at that age, so I felt it was my responsibility to find out if there were optimal and healthy ways that he should do that. Over about a year’s time I bought and read more than 25 books on pitching…what this did more than anything was (1) allowed me to develop a pretty good B.S-meter so that I could tell pretty well whether someone knew what they were talking about (or just making it up) regardless of the inevitable differences in jargon that people use and, (2) led me to seek out the very best personal coaching and mentoring that I could find for my son.

In my personal case, this little odyssey led my son and me directly to Tom House and the NPA. Tom wrote about 10 out of the 25 books that I scoured for information and I became convinced that here was a guy who had devoted his professional life to deep learning and optimization of his approach to coaching baseball pitchers. When I finally went to the Baseball Hall of Fame website and listened to Nolan Ryan’s induction speech, wherein Mr. Ryan spent 3 or 4 minutes specifically acknowledging Tom House’s outstanding influence on his later career, I was convinced–if at all possible, my son would get hands-on training from this same coach.

Imagine my delight at finding out how easy that actually is…Tom and his NPA organization offer a great variety of hands-on clinics for pitchers in San Diego and all over the country. Since we started going to these clinics about 4 years ago, I’ve always felt that we received far more value than we paid for. But, of course, different people may think very differently about how they like to spend their money. Personally, our next pitching clinic vacation in San Diego is a much higher priority for us than saving up for a boat or a motorcycle or a…you name it.

Tom House is undoubtedly not the answer for everyone–but maybe one of the many, many coaches who have earned NPA certification directly from Tom is the answer for you. Or maybe not, that’s your decision and no one elses.

Not knowing what part of the country you live in, I’d suggest that you look at http://www.nationalpitching.net/memberhome.asp?xu=101883&ct=2&cft=wb&sid=37A7AFF8-EF3C-475B-85BC-3E88B5301D5F , find the “Coaches” page, and at the bottom click on the link that helps you “find an NPA certified coach near you”. There are at least 200 NPA certified coaches around the country and most of them are very, very good. You can even contact the NPA directly for detailed information about which of their coaches in your area they would recommend most highly to you.

I live in Rhode Island lol not many good coaches here. I’ve never gotten any instruction by a coach that full went into my mechanics because they know little about pitching. Also i don’t mean to brag or anything but I know more then my high school coaches about pitching mechanics and workout and more…

Also I’m not looking for a pitching coach because I don’t feel like spending money on one little thing that I could research and look at pro’s to find the right way to do. Also my mechanics have gotten better over the last year from just using this fourm.

I’m kind of like my own pitching coach sounds weird but I’m the one that trys to do it my self depending on what feels right and wrong and some video tape.

I might want to check a NPA rep out for one in my neck of the woods lol a new england thing

What is it that we say at the NPA, flippin?

what spencer could you re word that I’m confussed what you are referring to.

It isn’t directed at you.

Howdy there, Spencer. Well, as you know, we say lots of things about pitching at the NPA…many of which should be highly relevant to RIstar and others who are deeply interested in learning the craft.

RIstar got one of 'em without even trying…Every pitcher should eventually become his own best pitching coach.

I do sympathize with RIstar and I don’t think it’s arrogant for him to be suspicious that he knows more about pitching than the HS coaches in his local area–he knows his local situation better than us, and I’ve certainly seen my share of HS coaches who, despite being sincere and well-meaning guys, really just teach ‘common wisdoms’ that they memorized as youngsters without much follow-up diligence or analysis of the information.

All that being said I do believe strongly that a coach and mentor, whose authority and ability you can trust, is a huge advantage for a young pitcher. Note the key phrase–authority and ability you can trust.

There is some shocking baloney in the literature, published by people that should know better, as well as some disappointing inability of former great MLB pitchers to either understand or explain what it was that made them great.

The total body of information on baseball pitching sometimes looks like a minefield to me, and a coach and mentor will either help you navigate through it as far as your talent will allow you to go…or he will misdirect you to step on one or more of the mines and short-cut your career. That’s why it is so very important to develop a strong and comprehensive set of litmus tests for determining who you can trust, and who you can’t trust.

Oh, on second thought Spencer I’ll bet you’re referring to Tom’s general summary of the sad state of affairs in this great sport:

“Baseball is a game of failure, coached by negative people, in a misinformation environment”

Broken down into its parts:

“Baseball is a game of failure”–Yes it is, and it will always be so. There is no escape from the facts, but we can learn to deal appropriately with the high failure rates inherent in baseball.

“…coached by negative people…”—This a generality that very fortunately is not always true. There are positive coaches in baseball and they are worth their weight in gold to the athletes that hook up with them. Forty years later, House still talks reverently about USC coach Rod Dedeaux’s overwhelmingly positive influence on the Trojan players he coached over the years. And, you can’t argue with Mr. Dedeaux’s track record of success with his players.

“…in a misinformation environment.” --This is one of the most insidious problems that holds baseball players back at the lower levels, of course. Everybody has an opinion, as they should, but there is often not enough deep experience or intellectual diligence among baseball coaches to find out if what they are teaching is really supported by fact. In fact, there is often a certain pride in being ‘old-school’–that is to say, pride in remaining unwilling to question common wisdoms and old beliefs even when there is clear evidence that they are questionable or flat-out wrong.

Yes you are right Old school with nothing to back it. My two coaches I have had that talk mechanics with me one say’s “That’s how I was taught” with nothing to back it and the other talked to me about balance point but shortly became more quiet as I proved I could pitch vs the best teams in my area including South Coast and New York in a summer tourney. So if you are good on the field the coaches will not say much so I plan to be good lol so I can keep at mechanics that will not hold me back.

RIstar,

Try not to get too hung up on how many bad coaches there are in baseball–there are a lot of uninformed or misinformed people in every profession in life, but getting hung up on that sad fact is a trap.

Rather, you should possibly consider that a really good coach will be able to shorten a lot of trails for you. A good coach will help you to understand things that will otherwise take far too long for you to discover, digest, and incorporate by yourself.

Think of this–if the coaching is particularly bad in your area, you are most likely playing with and against other guys who have been coached badly. If you have a bit better than average talent and you are not so susceptible to bad coaching you might look like a star in your local area, compared to what you are used to seeing.

But, unfortunately for you, that doesn’t mean that the coaching and young talent is poor everywhere–quite the contrary. There are lots of guys who start optimizing their pitching mechanics, with cutting-edge coaching help, far younger than you are now. And, the best pitching coaches will also help you with conditioning and strength training specific for pitching, mental/emotional management for pitchers, and advise you about appropriate nutritional practices for athletes.

Unfortunately, “hope” is not a viable strategy–you can’t simply wait for an outstanding coach to show up in your area. Once you develop your personal set of litmus tests for what a good pitching coach is, you should actively look for the right person to work with, IMHO.

Historically, lots of guys may have made it to the highest levels of baseball without much formal training–but the game, and the training methods for playing at the highest levels, have changed a lot within the past 3 decades.

Wishing you the best of luck,

LAFlippin

RI - just some input from personal experience.

I’ve had (and still do) have glove action very similar to Matt Garza
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1836489327991818787

  • pretty standard and basic. A few years ago, while working out with some older kids, an instructor introduced the “glove to body” motion you’re talking about. I’ve been experimenting with it more lately, and have found that this motion (at least for me) decreases control, increases back leg/hip torque, and is harder to field your position. I’ve noticed negligible gains in velocity. It has also been hard for me to change from my old glove action; it’s been hard to get used to to experiment with.

there again, thats my personal experience.