gaining velocity

hi i’m 17 years old i missed my junior year of varsity because oh health reasons, but even before this problem i really couldn’t hit over 75 on the radar gun that much and i,m 6’2 195lbs. i know i tend to throw accross my body alot and short arm the ball, i’m able to go to the gym now on a routine due to my increasing health status so if anyone has any suggestions on exercises for mechanics or weightlifting please email me back thanks[/b]

You should be running sprints, long toss, and build up that core. And I would throw everyday, not hard but get some throwing in.

alrite thanks alot because i’m also a pretty good hitter but even with my low velocity i still do well pitching and i want to stay with it so thanks

You could get stronger than the Hulk, but you still won’t throw harder than 75 if you have those flaws in your mechanics. I am all in favor of getting into the weightroom, but you should also be working with a coach or instructor this offseason.

Good Luck

kc86,

Are you sure about the statement that, you cant throw hard across your body? B.J. Ryan definitely steps towards first and he can throw pretty good.

I was more focused on the short-arming part. There are certainly many examples of guys that throw across their body and have been successful. I dont know of anyone that shortarms in the majors.

Mechanics + strength training will equate to the velocity gains you want.

Thanks for catching that Okie.

Okay, I’m going to sound like a real asshole right now but i need to say a few things.

So far the advice i have seen is terrible. Pitching is not a arm strength activity. Do not go to the weight room trying to strengthen your arms that would be a real idiotic thing to do, trust me. Lifting weights for your arms will actually make you throw slower. Pitching velocity is all about arm speed. Arm speed comes not from the arm but from the lower body and torso. Put some muscles on your lower body and torso to get some more torque for more velocity. Your stride should be 75% or more of your height, if you are not doing this you are making a mistake. Look at all the major leaguers, 9/10 pitchers strides are 75% of their height and above. Zumaya for the Detroit Tigers has hit 103 miles per hour this season and his stride is 82% of his body height. Your lower body should land closed at foot strike and your hips should rotate to throw your upper body through to deliver the arm like a whip.

Arm strength… How is arm strength supposed to help your arm move faster? Can anyone explain to me, how more muscle is going to increase arm speed which is going to increase velocity? Lifting weights to bulk up your arms is a waste of time. You will actually most likely end up throwing slower because them you arm has more mass to move faster and the movements in weight lifting are slow so during the off season your arms could get do adapted and teach them to be slower which would slow down your arm speed. That’s a fact.

Long toss… This drill is making me sick to my stomach. How is long toss supposed to help your pitching at all? Can you explain this? In long toss, the most overrated drill in baseball history, everything is nearly completely opposite of pitching. In long toss, you are supposed to lollipop, or rainbow, the ball as far as possible. In pitching you are only throwing from 60ft and 6 inches , not from 300+ feet. Your release point is also different in long toss because you are supposed to lollipop the ball, this will mess up your pitching control if anything. Also, in long toss you crow hop the ball which you can not do from the mound. Another thing, you are on flat ground when performing it, there is no rubber and you are not going downhill. Going downhill uses more muscles in your body and also effects your stride, so how is long toss going to help your pitching?

The place you should put the most focus on in your body is the rotator cuff. If you do not have a strong rotator cuff you are likely to throw out your arm, and not throw as fast as you can due to more soreness and improper treatment of your rotator cuff. Your rotator cuff contains the ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc. that are neccisary in pitching.

To be honest, no matter who your coach is, once you have your mechanics down and have the neccisary strength in the right areas of your body the only way to improve your fastball and control, is to practice it.
Think about it, think of all the great pitchers in baseball history who have pitched before all of these idiotic pitching drills such as long toss, towel drill, and the kneeling drill… Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Satchel Paige, and the list goes on… You know how they got better? They practiced.

This is my advice, you don’t have to take it, but it’s much more logical than all of the pitchers, coaches, and instructors screaming weighted baseballs, weighted vests, long toss, that don’t have a scientifcally proven reason why they work…

Carpenter: You subscribe to the theories of Dick Mills?

Anyways, I agree and disagree:

Real weightlifting, not bodybuilding, involves teaching the body how to be explosive and the majority of the lifts strengthen your core, while focusing on other portions of the body.
Olympic lifters are the most explosive athletes on the planet, and pitching is an explosive activity.

I think longtoss has it’s place, but is far overused, and second to pitching from a mound.

I have experienced decent gains with weighted baseball, and am currently experiencing some great gains on my current program of O/U throwing.

Yes pitchers got it done before weight lifting and drills, but a lot fewer were throwing 90 mph. Bret Saberhagen was interviewed a few weeks ago during a game and he said the number of pitchers throwing 90+ is so many more now than it was 10 years ago.

Anyways my offseason list for best velocity gains in order:

  1. Mechanical work (I’m not a drills guy prefer it all worked on as one)
  2. Throwing from a mound
  3. Strength and power training in the gym
  4. Auxilery throwing including Weighted baseballs (until I hear a bad experience with them I think it is worthy)
  5. Diet

[quote=“Carpenter”]Okay, I’m going to sound like a real a** right now but i need to say a few things.

So far the advice i have seen is terrible. Pitching is not a arm strength activity. Do not go to the weight room trying to strengthen your arms that would be a real idiotic thing to do, trust me. Lifting weights for your arms will actually make you throw slower. Pitching velocity is all about arm speed. Arm speed comes not from the arm but from the lower body and torso. Put some muscles on your lower body and torso to get some more torque for more velocity. Your stride should be 75% or more of your height, if you are not doing this you are making a mistake. Look at all the major leaguers, 9/10 pitchers strides are 75% of their height and above. Zumaya for the Detroit Tigers has hit 103 miles per hour this season and his stride is 82% of his body height. Your lower body should land closed at foot strike and your hips should rotate to throw your upper body through to deliver the arm like a whip.

Arm strength… How is arm strength supposed to help your arm move faster? Can anyone explain to me, how more muscle is going to increase arm speed which is going to increase velocity? Lifting weights to bulk up your arms is a waste of time. You will actually most likely end up throwing slower because them you arm has more mass to move faster and the movements in weight lifting are slow so during the off season your arms could get do adapted and teach them to be slower which would slow down your arm speed. That’s a fact.

Long toss… This drill is making me sick to my stomach. How is long toss supposed to help your pitching at all? Can you explain this? In long toss, the most overrated drill in baseball history, everything is nearly completely opposite of pitching. In long toss, you are supposed to lollipop, or rainbow, the ball as far as possible. In pitching you are only throwing from 60ft and 6 inches , not from 300+ feet. Your release point is also different in long toss because you are supposed to lollipop the ball, this will mess up your pitching control if anything. Also, in long toss you crow hop the ball which you can not do from the mound. Another thing, you are on flat ground when performing it, there is no rubber and you are not going downhill. Going downhill uses more muscles in your body and also effects your stride, so how is long toss going to help your pitching?

The place you should put the most focus on in your body is the rotator cuff. If you do not have a strong rotator cuff you are likely to throw out your arm, and not throw as fast as you can due to more soreness and improper treatment of your rotator cuff. Your rotator cuff contains the ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc. that are neccisary in pitching.

To be honest, no matter who your coach is, once you have your mechanics down and have the neccisary strength in the right areas of your body the only way to improve your fastball and control, is to practice it.
Think about it, think of all the great pitchers in baseball history who have pitched before all of these idiotic pitching drills such as long toss, towel drill, and the kneeling drill… Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Satchel Paige, and the list goes on… You know how they got better? They practiced.

This is my advice, you don’t have to take it, but it’s much more logical than all of the pitchers, coaches, and instructors screaming weighted baseballs, weighted vests, long toss, that don’t have a scientifcally proven reason why they work…[/quote]shut up man, you just dont come on here and say that all the advice is crap, GIVE YOUR ****ING ADVICE AND THATS IT, MY GOD, EVERYONE IS JUST TRYING TO HELP AND YOU JUST REGISTERED, BUILD A FREAKIN REP BEFORE YOU BASH PEOPLE!! RETARD

So far the advice i have seen is terrible. Pitching is not a arm strength activity. Do not go to the weight room trying to strengthen your arms that would be a real idiotic thing to do, trust me. Lifting weights for your arms will actually make you throw slower. Pitching velocity is all about arm speed. Arm speed comes not from the arm but from the lower body and torso. Put some muscles on your lower body and torso to get some more torque for more velocity. Your stride should be 75% or more of your height, if you are not doing this you are making a mistake. Look at all the major leaguers, 9/10 pitchers strides are 75% of their height and above. Zumaya for the Detroit Tigers has hit 103 miles per hour this season and his stride is 82% of his body height. Your lower body should land closed at foot strike and your hips should rotate to throw your upper body through to deliver the arm like a whip.

my response: how far was nolan ryans stride? that statement about 75 percent is crap

Arm strength… How is arm strength supposed to help your arm move faster? Can anyone explain to me, how more muscle is going to increase arm speed which is going to increase velocity? Lifting weights to bulk up your arms is a waste of time. You will actually most likely end up throwing slower because them you arm has more mass to move faster and the movements in weight lifting are slow so during the off season your arms could get do adapted and teach them to be slower which would slow down your arm speed. That’s a fact.

response: your right for once

Long toss… This drill is making me sick to my stomach. How is long toss supposed to help your pitching at all? Can you explain this? In long toss, the most overrated drill in baseball history, everything is nearly completely opposite of pitching. In long toss, you are supposed to lollipop, or rainbow, the ball as far as possible. In pitching you are only throwing from 60ft and 6 inches , not from 300+ feet. Your release point is also different in long toss because you are supposed to lollipop the ball, this will mess up your pitching control if anything. Also, in long toss you crow hop the ball which you can not do from the mound. Another thing, you are on flat ground when performing it, there is no rubber and you are not going downhill. Going downhill uses more muscles in your body and also effects your stride, so how is long toss going to help your pitching?

response: and here you drop off again, 1. it streches your arm out 2. your dont lolipop it, you throw it hard 3. it increases arm strength 4. all major league pitchers have to do it 5. scouts like to see it, soo kids, do it, carpenter, u dont have to cuz u most likely already hurt ur arm cause ur techniques suck

The place you should put the most focus on in your body is the rotator cuff. If you do not have a strong rotator cuff you are likely to throw out your arm, and not throw as fast as you can due to more soreness and improper treatment of your rotator cuff. Your rotator cuff contains the ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc. that are neccisary in pitching.

i agree

To be honest, no matter who your coach is, once you have your mechanics down and have the neccisary strength in the right areas of your body the only way to improve your fastball and control, is to practice it.
Think about it, think of all the great pitchers in baseball history who have pitched before all of these idiotic pitching drills such as long toss, towel drill, and the kneeling drill… Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Satchel Paige, and the list goes on… You know how they got better? They practiced.

i bet they did long toss, at least nolan ryan and i have no idea why he isint on that list

This is my advice, you don’t have to take it, but it’s much more logical than all of the pitchers, coaches, and instructors screaming weighted baseballs, weighted vests, long toss, that don’t have a scientifcally proven reason why they work

dont take his advice, long toss helps, vests dont know, weighted balls help if done right

[quote=“Tanner Lorenz”][quote=“Carpenter”]Okay, I’m going to sound like a real a** right now but i need to say a few things.

So far the advice i have seen is terrible. Pitching is not a arm strength activity. Do not go to the weight room trying to strengthen your arms that would be a real idiotic thing to do, trust me. Lifting weights for your arms will actually make you throw slower. Pitching velocity is all about arm speed. Arm speed comes not from the arm but from the lower body and torso. Put some muscles on your lower body and torso to get some more torque for more velocity. Your stride should be 75% or more of your height, if you are not doing this you are making a mistake. Look at all the major leaguers, 9/10 pitchers strides are 75% of their height and above. Zumaya for the Detroit Tigers has hit 103 miles per hour this season and his stride is 82% of his body height. Your lower body should land closed at foot strike and your hips should rotate to throw your upper body through to deliver the arm like a whip.

Arm strength… How is arm strength supposed to help your arm move faster? Can anyone explain to me, how more muscle is going to increase arm speed which is going to increase velocity? Lifting weights to bulk up your arms is a waste of time. You will actually most likely end up throwing slower because them you arm has more mass to move faster and the movements in weight lifting are slow so during the off season your arms could get do adapted and teach them to be slower which would slow down your arm speed. That’s a fact.

Long toss… This drill is making me sick to my stomach. How is long toss supposed to help your pitching at all? Can you explain this? In long toss, the most overrated drill in baseball history, everything is nearly completely opposite of pitching. In long toss, you are supposed to lollipop, or rainbow, the ball as far as possible. In pitching you are only throwing from 60ft and 6 inches , not from 300+ feet. Your release point is also different in long toss because you are supposed to lollipop the ball, this will mess up your pitching control if anything. Also, in long toss you crow hop the ball which you can not do from the mound. Another thing, you are on flat ground when performing it, there is no rubber and you are not going downhill. Going downhill uses more muscles in your body and also effects your stride, so how is long toss going to help your pitching?

The place you should put the most focus on in your body is the rotator cuff. If you do not have a strong rotator cuff you are likely to throw out your arm, and not throw as fast as you can due to more soreness and improper treatment of your rotator cuff. Your rotator cuff contains the ligaments, tendons, muscles, etc. that are neccisary in pitching.

To be honest, no matter who your coach is, once you have your mechanics down and have the neccisary strength in the right areas of your body the only way to improve your fastball and control, is to practice it.
Think about it, think of all the great pitchers in baseball history who have pitched before all of these idiotic pitching drills such as long toss, towel drill, and the kneeling drill… Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Satchel Paige, and the list goes on… You know how they got better? They practiced.

This is my advice, you don’t have to take it, but it’s much more logical than all of the pitchers, coaches, and instructors screaming weighted baseballs, weighted vests, long toss, that don’t have a scientifcally proven reason why they work…[/quote]shut up man, you just dont come on here and say that all the advice is crap, GIVE YOUR ****ING ADVICE AND THATS IT, MY GOD, EVERYONE IS JUST TRYING TO HELP AND YOU JUST REGISTERED, BUILD A FREAKIN REP BEFORE YOU BASH PEOPLE!! RETARD[/quote]

Easy Tanner, Just his opinion. Which I agree with some and some I don’t, Building up your Biceps to look like a body builder is true not good, Neil Allen pitcher for white sox’s at the time threw in upper eighties to low nineties when he came up, decided to hit weights on biceps came back and couldn’t throw past 84mph career over. you need flexiblitity in your arm and body.

Just for carps knowledege when you play long toss you throw on a line and try to one hop each other you don’t throw lollipops back and forth.

Its posts Like Carpenter’s that drive me away from Boards like these.

Long toss does have place in Pitching. Ask Leo Mazzone , Maddux, Glavine, etc.

I have seen my son’s arm strength and stamina go a long way with long toss. He is currently the youngest kid working out with the Varsity Team and he has one of the strongest arms out on the field. You know why? Long toss! He has a rubber arm and can bounce back faster than anyone on his travel team. You know why Long toss! Hmm there is a pattern here. You cannot come to a board like this and make idiotic comments without getting pimp slapped by some of the more senior members here.

Long Toss, Weighted Balls, Mound Work, Backwards Chaining, etc. etc. etc.
They all have a place in pitching, granted not everyone does these things but they do have a place in pitching.

By the way you do sound like Dicks Mills red headed step child with the comments you made.

:oops:

Makes you wonder where Chinmusic is…I think he channeled thru Tanner (Easy big fella).
Come on Carpenter, it looks like you’ve been on a few boards before, read a few posts on this site. it encourages all opinions, looks for different angles. We have beat to death all of the different guruology out there…Mills, Marshall, House, and my fovorite the unautherized school of Maddux. Steve Ellis just commented about Dick Mills on another thread…he made some good points…give it a read, it’s in the general forum under Legit?
Now daggumit quit putting off the bum…he’s got great S.Cal contacts with the Padres…And if you don’t want to teach long toss…well ok, I hope you have success. It would appear that we have at least some anecdotal evidence that with “some” folks loss toss has provided at the very least an appearance of assistance and at the very most, provided a basis for higher velocity, increased shouder, arm and torso strength and who knows it may well have even cured the heartbreak of psoriisis :shock:

bulking up is not good for pitching but in many cases u need the muscle,

rotator cuff, core, chest, u wont slow down ur arm until u restrict ur range of motion wihich is a good bit of muscle.

light and lots of reps isnt bad

in my case im 6’2" 145lbs 16years old, and i throw 78-80mph and if i bulked up a little i would definetly throw harder. it depends on ur body build.

about 3 months ago i started strengthening my rotator cuff muscles and other parts of my shoulders, ran alot, and followed through a little more and i went from 74mph to 77mph which may not sound like much but thats only 3 months and those mphs were off a slightly uphill ground so a mound is a little faster cause u fall forward and have something to push off but thats beside the point.

weight lifting can hurt u if u dont know what ur doing and u can get injured figure out ur goals first in the weight room and figure out what exercises build ur throwing up, and mostly core abs chest tri’s rotator cuff, back.