Front Side Tilt

What do you think?

I’m not entirely sure that I understand. So basically they’re talking about applying more force on the front side, causing the arm to move slightly over the head?

I think it is meant to be comparable to Tim Lincecum

Gonna try it ristar?

i think he is dead on. i believe he is talking about letting your front shoulder get as high as possible as you travel down the mound. feller did it, koufax did it, and it makes sense when you think about it.

the more room or distance you create to accelerate the pitch, the harder you should throw (simple physics). if you get your hips in front of your shoulders as far as possible, tilt the front shoulder as high as possible with the back shoulder going down (like a teter-toter), and counter rotate as far as possible to activate and stretch the big muscles of the core and trunk, that is as hard as you can throw. you then work on how explosively you can do this with a loose arm motion.

requires a flexible, strong, quick body. most people are not born with the ability to do this 100+ times every 5 days. it must be developed through a specific program founded on throwing more than most people realize is necessary.

I wouldn’t say it’s a NECESSITY. Some pitchers throw hard with it, some don’t. I think the front side tilt is just a function of opposite and equal arms into foot plant. It depends a lot on a pitcher’s arm action.

how can I work on this tilt nonsense … like what can i do to help me get better tilt… exercises/ stretching

didn’t mean to imply that tilt is necessary, i meant throwing more than most people think is necessary (i don’t think pitchers throw enough).

if you can do it, i think the tilt makes it easier to use your body to throw with leverage.

if you think tilt is nonsense you probably shouldn’t do it. for a great example, look at the pitching video clip of sandy koufax on this site. that’s about as well as it can be done.

i didnt mean it was nonsense bro… so just throw more and the tilt stuff will come?

no joey, you must throw with a purpose. if you do not emphasize the tilt, you usually won’t do it to the degree of koufax or feller (they really do it).

you may have to visualize your front shoulder tilting straight toward the sky. imagine establishing a 45’ angle from the horizon with your front and back shoulder. you can put your stride foot on a folding chair (have someone hold it) simulating your throwing motion about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way toward the plate. tilt your front shoulder up till you can just see the plate or target over it. then shift your weight off the foot on the chair and raise it off the chair just a little. your weight is now completely on your back foot.

have the person holding the chair move it out of the way and actually throw an easy bullpen at a target using the tilt. you will find that you have mega room and distance to accelerate the ball by rotating and using the big muscles of your hips and trunk.

good luck and let us know how it goes. this will feel very strange for a while.

It seems that this tilt at release and it’s corresponding opposite tilt from leg lift until release is a way to stretch and engage the “front” side core muscles as well as maintain balance on the way to release.

You will notice that those who tilt toward 2B on the way to the plate are relatively upright, from a CF view. Whether or not it helps with velocity, I see it as a way to maintain balance and lead with the hips.

If they tilt towards 2B while going into footplant, they MUST tilt to the glove side after footplant in order to clear the head and let the arm come through. If they don’t do this, the foream would severely flyout to the side because the torso is too upright. This would put tremendous stress on the shoulder and elbow.

This guy probably has the most extreme tilt toward 2B in MLB.

I have a question for the NPA guys here. How would House respond to the smaller video, the one from the centre field angle? I see a late posture change, head not even close to staying on line to the target and no upright spine during shoulder rotation.

From what I have seen in MLB pitchers, if the shoulders stay relatively level to the ground throught the delivery, there must be some tilt towards 3B (bent over at the waist) before footplant in order to maintain balance and momentum, unless you are really quick to the plate. Once the foot plants, the head still must clear for the arm to come through. Of course there is some slight tilt.

If the head does not clear, you will end up with level shoulders and a sidearm release point.

Different people have differing ways of maintaining balance. Some are more comfortable leaning back toward 2B, some more comfortable leaning toward 3B. I believe this is the reason sidearmers/submariners “naturally” throw from where they do and why they “can’t throw from a higher slot”. Because it doesn’t “feel natural or comfortable”.

I’d imagine if we could see a side view that his head might move rearward relative to his center of gravity but, because his center of gravity is moving forward, his head doesn’t move backward in an absolute sense. Assuming that is correct, I’m actually not sure how the NPA would view that.

Regarding the tilted shoulders, House has no problem with that. All he cares about is that the arms get to opposite and equal at foot plant. The tilt, a la Andy Pettitte, is not an issue.

It looks to me like the pitcher’s spine shifts to an upright position before shoulder rotation.

My understanding is that House recommends a combination of the spine being upright during shoulder rotation and the head moving on that target line. Correct me where I miss the boat with that.

What we see here is shoulder tilt (back toward 2nd) translating into a significant side to side (3rd to 1st) tilt of the spine, clearing the head to allow this high arm slot. To me, this breaks many of House’s rules. Not only House, but Mills also speaks of rotating around an upright spine. Guru convergence? :shock:

I guess that the guys who do tilt the spine, not only back but sideways, illustrate that there truly are no “absolutes”.

does this tilt stuff help stride? or does it help gain more power/ momentum/ anything?

Your understanding is correct. Shoulder rotation around an upright spine into the “stack and track” position (head and shoulders stacked upright, low back arched in a momentary isometric load preceding forward trunk flexion). House would probably also notice the big dip the head takes.

Agreed. Although I’d say the spine tilt and head clear don’t allow the high arm slot - they cause it.

Say it ain’t so!

Dat’s da fact, Jack!

the more you tilt, the easier it is to raise the stride foot. if you have the strength to hold the tilt as you move toward the plate, it will keep the stride foot up and increase your stride length. simple kinesiology isn’t it?

But at what cost? Nolan Ryan had no trouble keeping the stride foot up without having to tilt his spine. He simply tilted his pelvis. Many pitchers do this. Maybe it takes some certain flexibility to do it?

Anyway, I think tilting the spine way back does have trade-offs. In the clip above, the pitcher’s upper half “cartwheels” forward and he doesn’t get his hips rotating before shoulders. Might work for him but I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone. BTW, this cartwheeling plays a big part in him falling off to the side. I also wonder about what kind of stress it puts on his arm because it does appear to place him in an over-rotated position at release.

I’m thinking that one could very well tilt the spine back and raise the leg yet land in a moderate stride length. In other words, these factors won’t “necessarily” result in a long stride.

you guys are right. i think a guy needs to try it and see if it gives him better results. it worked pretty well for feller, koufax and spahn. it could be that the ability to do this is a result of core strength and flexibility which would indicate pitchers need to develop this more, instead of just tilting. if you tilt and do not have adequate strength and flexibility it could do more harm than good, but you will know this very quick. kind of like external rotation of the shoulder.