Fritz Outman's Site

Since viewing this type of delivery recently, I decided to experiment with it and I must say that I have found it to be far LESS stressful on MY arm than with the standard arm action. I would say I threw the ball just as hard but with a bit less accuracy.

What I get out of it is that it might be an effective way to teach pitchers the rotational aspect of the standard delivery. I still feel there is too much benefit to the linear movements and creating maximum momentum toward the plate with a long, explosive stride and late arm action, but this type of delivery can really help to teach pitchers how to finish with the rotational component of the delivery.

I am all for experimentation and bucking the system in order to make advancements, but I agree this type of delivery is likely to sit on the shelf in a lab for a LONG TIME.

The delivery by the Outman method made them prospects, due to success and speed, they are major league pitchers because they adapted it to the bigs…injury was involved. I see that as better than Marshalls approach because both sons were able to breech the ceiling…Outmans kids both made it…none of Marshalls did.
I agree with Steven in the respect that these “groundbreakers” aren’t the pathway…unless the daddy continues on and demonstrates that besides his kids being in the lucky sperm club, his method translates to more prospects that make the jump.

[quote=“structuredoc”]Since viewing this type of delivery recently, I decided to experiment with it and I must say that I have found it to be far LESS stressful on MY arm than with the standard arm action. I would say I threw the ball just as hard but with a bit less accuracy.

What I get out of it is that it might be an effective way to teach pitchers the rotational aspect of the standard delivery. I still feel there is too much benefit to the linear movements and creating maximum momentum toward the plate with a long, explosive stride and late arm action, but this type of delivery can really help to teach pitchers how to finish with the rotational component of the delivery.

I am all for experimentation and bucking the system in order to make advancements, but I agree this type of delivery is likely to sit on the shelf in a lab for a LONG TIME.[/quote]

my thoughts exactly. It initially struck me as a great drill to teach the most important part of the throw, the finish. The fact that these kids can throw 90+ mph with this motion illustrates just how important the final part of the throw is. For high 3/4 and overhand throwers, this could potentially prove to be a beneficial drill.

[quote]

my thoughts exactly. It initially struck me as a great drill to teach the most important part of the throw, the finish. The fact that these kids can throw 90+ mph with this motion illustrates just how important the final part of the throw is. For high 3/4 and overhand throwers, this could potentially prove to be a beneficial drill.[/quote]

Wolforth is doing the same thing that you are talking about Ben. I will try to get my son to let me video him demonstrating the drills.

Watching the clip Lanky posted - frame by frame - it seems to me the only thing unique about it is the starting position and the path the throwing arm takes to get to the high-cocked position. From that point forward, it seems pretty traditional to me. Sure, there’s some lateral trunk tilt resulting in tilted shoulders and a raised arm slot. But that’s nothing new. He gets his arm up by foot plant (as some Internet folks recommend), he gets good separation and rotates late (shoulder rotation well after foot plant) allowing him to get out over the front foot well, and he finishes with a flat back and low arm (a result of the high arm slot). What else is so unique?

On Outman’s website, he states that biomechanical does not represent valid science. And, of course, he claims his method is grounded in valid science. But I seem to have missed the explanation of what his science is. Does anyone know and can you explain it to me?

What, specifically, is it about this delivery that aids rotation that would be missing from a more traditional delivery?

Between the point I made above that there really isn’t that much unique in their deliveries and the point you made that they were able to adapt their deliveries, I have to believe these kids had “it”. They probably would have thrown 90+ with a standard delivery and they probably would have had success with a standard delivery.

[quote=“TheUnDiscovered”]
Reminds me of my workout, it’s unorthodox and everyone disregards it. lol[/quote]

What is your workout?
Have you ever tried doing some of Barry Lovelace’s exercises?
They are designed to give a baseball player explosive power.

kyleb, are you recommending that young pitchers reading posts on this site use this type of throwing motion or marshall’s throwing motion? you refer to them often in your posts

Being careful not to speak for Kyle, I don’t believe that’s what he’s suggesting. What I’ve taken from all of this is that Kyle thinks there’s something that might be learned, maybe a small nugget that can be added to the traditional storehouse of info. If Outman’s mechanic is what I think it is, it really is different than traditional mechs.

Kyle, I can’t really tell in the Youtube videos (I can’t seem to stop things frame by frame) but I’m guessing that it’s similar to what Bill Peterson was working on re: throwing along the acromial line. Am I correct there?

I’ll respond fully at a later time/date (so busy lately with my facility, writing down all my thoughts into a book form for my clients, working my day job, and preparing for my kid to be born - yes, a kid!), but in general I’m just saying that there’s nothing wrong with keeping an open mind with regard to these types of approaches.

Tentatively, I agree with LL’s comments and this is exactly what I thought about Outman’s methodologies - that it’s a great teaching point for learning some of the motor skills that make up a “better” delivery. Whether or not I’d endorse the entire delivery is another subject and not something I want to get into.

Get down on the kid front Kyle!
Now you’ll really learn what HARD WORK!!! Really is :lol:
You’ll be a great dad! I tip my cap towards the momma!

Now we gotta get that Ellis fella producing proginy and we’ll like replenish the mlb pitching pool :wink:

Now I’d ask both you and Lanky…this would seem a small window benefit possibility…does either of you think, particularly you Ben, if you’ll incorporate development in this area to your conditioning regieme…at this late date, for Kyle, say as in Lanky, a college freshman or beyond or would it be perhaps an area to address post puberty, prior to college qualifying mechs being solidifyed?

jd,

Thanks a ton!

As for the development of LL, I’m not completely sure what you’re talking about. Both LL and I are pretty much on the same page with regard to strength + conditioning for baseball athletes (I even switched to the high-bar squat position, LL!) - are you talking about Outman’s mechanics as far as drill potentials?

Either way, I’m interested in collaborating.

I know you two are generally on the same conditioning page. I mean, does this mean that you’d immediately start to add area specific conditioning, addressing what Fritz seems to have concentrated on from day one…I just get nervous when talking about conditioning an area that has never been specifically addressed…and how you go about it…with particular emphasis on where that pitcher is in the chase as far as age, maturity and prospects.

As far as whether any of this will change the way I strength train and condition my body, no. But this does help emphasize the fact that the vast majority of the velocity in a 90mph delivery can come from the upper body and core. I’m probably more convinced than ever of the importance of the lats and core musculature in the throw, but this has all been addressed in the way I train my body already.

As far as whether I will try to make any kind of mechanical change based on this, the answer is probably no at least from the mound. In my long toss though I am much more overhand and, as stated above, have seen my mechanics kind of evolve over the last few months to where I am really feeling much better separation and a more powerful pulldown/follow through. While my body kind of figured this out before I’d heard about Outman, it helps to demonstrate the velocity potential that can be achieved when the right muscles are used in the throw to create maximum leverage. And if I hadn’t already figured this out in my long toss, I sure as hell would have tried it, at least as a drill.

I think if you stuck a kid in the Outman starting position and told him to throw the shit out of the ball he would very soon figure out what good leverage and a strong follow through felt like, especially if you were cueing him on pulling down hard with the throwing arm lat and used the straight arm lat pulldown exercise or something similar to help him feel what that follow through should be like.

[quote=“CardsWin”][quote=“TheUnDiscovered”]
Reminds me of my workout, it’s unorthodox and everyone disregards it. lol[/quote]

What is your workout?
Have you ever tried doing some of Barry Lovelace’s exercises?
They are designed to give a baseball player explosive power.[/quote]

We follow the book “Body by Science” by Doug McGuff using the big 5 workout and also the use of superslow protocol.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]

Now we gotta get that Ellis fella producing proginy and we’ll like replenish the mlb pitching pool :wink: [/quote]

Nooooooo!!!

You just stay in them cold winters lad…time and nature will turn the tables on you…a few blizzards…some cabin fever…and viola cleanin baby poop and vomit for a few years :wink:
Nothing can destroy a mans ego like changing a poopy diaper on a kid who is peeing in your face while you do it :lol:

[quote=“Steven Ellis”][quote=“jdfromfla”]

Now we gotta get that Ellis fella producing proginy and we’ll like replenish the mlb pitching pool :wink: [/quote]

Nooooooo!!![/quote]
One day, it will be “oops” and, well, there you go. :mrgreen:

i would not recommend any young pitcher train and spend time developing a throwing motion that has no track record or use by great pitchers. the first thing pro ball did is try to change the kids’ throwing motion. why would you spend time on it and why would anyone recommend/teach the method.

first rule of thumb, if you do not know what you are doing, get expert help. i know of no experts who use this method. there is an extensive post that addresses this in the golden threads.