First Suppliments

I’ve been working out since the summer and for the last while I havent made much gains in anything. I’ve tried changing reps, sets, excersies and even programs. Now I’m interesting in taking some kind of Suppliments and was wondering what you guys would recomend as a good, relativly cheap first suppliment for a guy who knows close to nothing about them.

How old are you? What’s your diet/training like?

Starting out, just stick with the basics:

Multi
Whey Protein
Fish Oil
Creatine Monohydrate

Supplements arent a magic bullet. If you werent making gains before, you wont make any gains after.

Make an honest assessment of your diet, and your workouts. Many people tend to overemphasize the work that they do. If you still cant find a reason why you arent progressing, you should go to the doctor and get a blood test. Could be a low testosterone level, or something of that nature that is stalling your progress.

The multivitamin and fish oil are good for anyone to take. Whey is a good post-workout shake.

I dont know if low testoterone is the reason but what would the solutions be?
by the way Im 16 6’3 186lbs and have been shaving since I was 13.
Here’s my workout for last week starting Monday
Dec. 25-Off

Dec.26-
Bench (5,4,3,2,1)
DB Bench 3x8
Inline bench 3x8
shrugs 3x8
mid row 3x8
bent over barbell row 3x8
1/2 deads (for the upper back) 3x8

Dec 27-
CG bench 3x8
curls 2 sets of 21’s
reverse curls 3x8
hammer curls 3x8
wrist curls 3x8
reverse wrist curls 3x8
tri ext 3x8
Steven Ellis’s shoulder routine

Dec 28-
Power Cleans 3x5
Deadlift 3x5
one leg lunge 2x8
calf raise 3x10
Straight leg deadlift 3x5

Dec 29-
plank 1min
side plank 45sec each side
cross leg sit ups 16
crunchies 12
side bends with 50lb DB 3x8
leg circles 12 each way
left/rights with ball 15

Dec 30-
squat 5x5
lunge 3x8
lat pulldowns 3x8
mid row 3x8
bench 5x5
shrugs 3x8
bent over barbell row 3x8
back ext 3x12
incline bench 8,6,4
decline bench 8,6,4

Dec 31 off

Jan 1-
hockey game
core

This week I will follow pretty much the same rountine with a change in the res/sets

Honestly this is what I see:

A LOT OF VOLUME, and hitting the same muscles on consecutive days.

How long do your workouts take? 45 minutes to an 1 hour is probably a good target, any longer and your either not lifting as much as you could, or your lifts just won’t be quality.(not counting warmup/cooldown)

Your glycogen stores don’t take long to deplete (although I can’t remember the time off the top of my head, I believe it’s <1 hour.)
Once there depleted the remainder of your workout won’t be quality and you won’t make much for gains.


I’m quite confident I’m not the only one that will tell you this is a lot of sets:

squat 5x5
lunge 3x8
lat pulldowns 3x8
mid row 3x8
bench 5x5
shrugs 3x8
bent over barbell row 3x8
back ext 3x12
incline bench 8,6,4
decline bench 8,6,4

I believe 34 sets (although it is break, and my math/counting isn’t stupendous at the moment)

Honestly you really never need much more than 25 sets or so, and if you are doing intense low rep work you don’t need much for auxilery work.

A 5x5 set of squats is some hardcore work if your doing a true weight amount so that you cannot do anymore reps after the 5th rep of the 5th set, 34 sets is an extreme amount.

A good leg day doesn’t need to be more than:

Heavy compound lift (Squat, Deadlift, variation)
A single leg exercise (Lunges, Single leg squats, Step ups)
Posterior Chain (Glute ham raise, reverse hyper, good mornings)

And then throw in an abdominal circuit, and maybe a grip circuit if you so choose.

Honestly I think you’ll see a lot more gains, if you lower your volume in your workouts. I know it may sound confusing, but by doing excessive volume you will inhibit:

  1. Complete Muscle fatigue
  2. Lifting as much weight as you could be
  3. Having proper form for every rep
    And by using the same muscles on consecutive days you also inhibit complete recover which is one of the most important things to make gains.

Are you able to add weight to your lifts often, or what do you define lacking gains as?

Another question, Is there a reason you need to 7 bench press lifts in a 5 day period?

Give your muscles more time to grow and recover, I think you’ll see better results that way.

First of all my workouts are around the time period you suggested.
About adding wieght Im not sure how offen I add wieght to my lifts (which is why I started to keep a personal log) but when I say I am in lacking gains, it just seems like my base weight is always the same. like when I squat the wieght usually stays between 185 and 200 with my max being around 250. when I first started I made around 200lb gains in the four 1000lb club lifts.

As for the bench I guess I could do less, but I just desperatly want it to improve as my max is only around 145 so I try to do more sets if I cant do more weight.

One question I have is how long should I be resting between sets?
and what kind of gains does the average person make each month in overall strength and endurance?

Thanks alot for responding I really appreciate all the help I can get.

Don’t worry so much about weight gain – focus on maintaining / lowering your body fat percentage, gaining strength, and building endurance.

At your age it’s probable that your body isn’t ready to gain weight — and supplements won’t do anything to change that (other than drain your wallet and make you eliminate more often).

I’m more than twice your age now but speak from experience. I tried EVERYTHING legal to gain weight from age 16-18 but could never get over 185 lbs. Then, all of a sudden, from age 18-19 I went up to a solid 205.

I’ve witnessed similar changes from friends and players I coached in HS and college.

In other words, keep working hard, eat right — balanced diet, lots of natural protein (nuts, tuna fish, soybeans), and eventually, when your body is ready, it will add the pounds.

And when you’re my age, you’ll WISH you had a problem gaining weight ! :lol:

Joe, I think Khut was referencing adding weight to his lifts, not gaining weight (that was my impression, at least).

Anyway, I agree with centerfield - you are overtraining. For a reference point, I will normally try to do between 20 to 25 exercises in a workout. If you assume that it takes 30 seconds to do the exercise, followed by 1 minute - 2 minutes of rest (varies depending on sets, reps, and your goals) that would be around 45 minutes.

It would certainly make sense, seeing that you are a big guy and you lift regularly, yet you are not lifting as much as one would expect. There are some resources I would point you to:
Fundamentals of Special Strength Training in Sport by Verkhoshansky (former Soviet Union Strength Trainer)
http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=222&pid=69

and there is also a book by Pavel Tsatsouline called Power to the People, which blends in many theories of absolute strength training. He uses hokey marketing (“Comrade” and such), but the information is fairly solid. Check ebay (or torrent/ P2P sites if so inclined) for a cheaper copy.

If you are interested I could write a little more about increasing your 1RM strength, but it is not very applicable towards pitching.

Yea I am refering to adding wieght to my lifts not my frame sorry for the confusion.
kc I’d be interested to hear what you have to say about adding to my 1RM
thanks

When you lift, go really heavy (85-95% of your max) and do less than 5 reps. Rest 3-5 minutes per set, and then keep your sets low (as low as 2, as many as 4). Try that for a couple weeks with just a few lifts - bench, squat, deadlift for example. That is straight from Pavel’s book, although he recommends 2 sets max.

It will feel strange lifting so heavy, but it pays dividends. You DO NOT want to be going to muscular failure with this routine. You are fatiguing the muscles through the application of maximal power. It is contrary to most of the bodybuilder routines out there, but it definitely works - most powerlifters only do 3 reps per set and just a couple sets.

[quote=“khut”]Yea I am refering to adding wieght to my lifts not my frame sorry for the confusion.
kc I’d be interested to hear what you have to say about adding to my 1RM
thanks[/quote]

:oops:
Ah! My mistake! Well, it was good advice anyway

In that case, as already suggested try heavier weights and lower reps.

Also, you can try doing “negatives” on your last set of an exercise.

What you do is perform the exercise at the heaviest weight that you can safely handle for a maximum of 4-5 reps. Do the 4-5 reps, then immediately drop the weight about 20% and do as many reps as you can (no more than 6-8), then immediately drop the weight again by 20% and do as many reps as you can, and so on, until you have nothing on the bar and then finish with 6-10 reps at the lowest weight (or no weight at all, depending on the exercise). The idea is to work your muscles to absolute fatigue.

Make sure when you are going down in weight and getting tired, that you maintain excellent form. If you feel yourself “cheating”, stop and drop the weight.

At first, try doing negatives at the end of your workout, on your last workout of the week (i.e., Friday), so you have extra rest.

After a few weeks you should see an increase in the weight you can lift.

[quote=“kc86”]When you lift, go really heavy (85-95% of your max) and do less than 5 reps. Rest 3-5 minutes per set, and then keep your sets low (as low as 2, as many as 4). Try that for a couple weeks with just a few lifts - bench, squat, deadlift for example. That is straight from Pavel’s book, although he recommends 2 sets max.

It will feel strange lifting so heavy, but it pays dividends. You DO NOT want to be going to muscular failure with this routine. You are fatiguing the muscles through the application of maximal power. It is contrary to most of the bodybuilder routines out there, but it definitely works - most powerlifters only do 3 reps per set and just a couple sets.[/quote]

how many times a week should I be doing this?

Every other day (48 hours rest).

Sorry one last question, should I do bench, Squat and deads on the same day or should I split it up? and do I only do these main lifts or can I still do some auxilleries like lunges, lat palldowns, curls…

My recommendation,

First upperbody: Bench

First lowerbody: Squat

Second upperbody: a vertical press, maybe push press or something

Second lowerbody: Deadlift

I really like splitting up the work like that, it has done well for me. (Although I do vertical presses both days, as I do not bench usually)

As far as some type of vertical press of ready many times how it can add weight to your bench, as it still works, tris/pecs/shoulders, yet in another motion.

I would recommend squating, deadlifting on different days so that you can go full out with proper form. You really don’t need to do either of these movement twice a week really, and if your muscles are fatigued from the first exercise you will definately not be able to do the same amount of weight for the second exercise as you on a separate day.

Just my recommendation

–Edit:

Also don’t forget quality supplemental work, plenty of backwork, bent rows and pullups are king, and also posterior chain (everything athletic seems to be benefited by working the posterior chain), being the lower back, glutes, hams, calves.

Just do the three lifts: bench, deadlift, and squat.

You are trying to max out your strength, not isolate every little muscle.

[quote=“kc86”]Just do the three lifts: bench, deadlift, and squat.

You are trying to max out your strength, not isolate every little muscle.[/quote]

True, but is that necessarily as effective to become a pitcher?
I didn’t say isolate, but I think rows are very imporant, as are posterior chain exercises. These will also increase the three powerlifts by promoting balance of the muscles.

Just curious your thoughts on this kc?

Like I said, this is widely different than most other programs and it has a specific purpose - to raise maximal strength (aka tension) that the muscle can acheive. Khut’s old workouts were filled with tons of reps and exercises, this is an extremely simplified workout. It has a specific purpose, and unless you want to powerlift competitively, then you dont need to do it for a long period of time.

As far as pitching type performance, you cant go wrong with squats and deadlifts. Those both work the “posterior chain,” directly and indirectly. Benching heavy and frequently is not something I would recommend for most pitchers, but Khut wanted to know a surefire way to boost his numbers in the weightroom. This is the fastest and most effective way I have encountered.

Thanks alot for your help, Im psyched to try this out and Im going to start doing it tomorrow.