Falling Standards of Pitching in the Pro's

I think that the overall standard of pitching in recent years, especially this year, has dropped drastically, its kinda pathetic. These guys make way more money than they have any right to, yet, the starters cant get past the 6th inning and relievers are much less dominate. The only dominate position in the pitching staff is the closer, and thats only half true. I don’t mean that All pitchers are like this, but only the standouts seem to be worth having on the mound these days.

thats why only the standouts get paid alot

fransico rodriguez
C.C. Sabathia
Beast

look at the good pitchers(not just pitchers position players too) that arent getting paid alot

if the gm/owner has it he can spend it

they have the right to take what is throw at them
they get offered contracts and they accept
its the gm (stupid) decision to sign a sorry player for that much money

or they are good when they sign then get sorrier or worse or older

who can lead the league in Strikeouts ERA Wins Innings pitched
why arent those guys dominate???

So you think this is a function of lack of talent? How come it’s blamed on the pitchers? The strike zone getting squeezed…that doesn’t mean anything?..how about having video available after each at bat? Or an improved skill level of hitter…who is stronger and better trained.

I mean the “real” strike zone is “supposed” to be knees (Defined as the bottom of the knee cap) to the letters (Basically armpit to armpit) and black to black…now you tell me when was the last , first or anytime you’ve ever seen that called in mlb…Advantage hitter…
Now just out of sight is the video room in the dugout…slo-mo of every single pitch…where its located…how the pitcher looked when he threw it…all immediately available the second after the batter leaves the field…with a fully stocked hitting room to work on it…Advantage hitter…
Add to all this the level and sophistication of the training and conditioning a hitter now receives…from eye training to strength conditioning and it is clear to see that the hitter in the mlb game is given every single advantage in the game today…now why would you want a batting order to get more than 2 chances to see a pitcher on any given day…? If you think about it…a pitcher like CC Sabathia who has so many complete games (More than 10 American League entire teams and 15 National League entire teams) is just insane how really good he has to be. It is absolutely unbelievable how skilled a pitcher has to be at the mlb level…if he isn’t just completely outstanding he’s everyones beyach and will soon find himself in a minor league uny or selling cars or announcing.
So I’m sorry you are totally wrong in my humble opinion.

to add on to that batters can get video of the pitcher they are gonna face
plus the earlier encounters in their career(for some)

plus ost pitcher only have 4 pitches or less
one is a fastball or variation
and most likely a change
and the common curve or slider

think about it

plus the hitters see 90 mph in games and at batting practice so the fastball isnt beating guys like it used to

i can agree with you cause some pitchers arent worth the money
but the majority(?) are worth it or arent getting paid enough

to add on to that batters can get video of the pitcher they are gonna face
plus the earlier encounters in their career(for some)

plus ost pitcher only have 4 pitches or less
one is a fastball or variation
and most likely a change
and the common curve or slider

think about it

plus the hitters see 90 mph in games and at batting practice so the fastball isnt beating guys like it used to

i can agree with you cause some pitchers arent worth the money
but the majority(?) are worth it or arent getting paid enough[/quote]

Pitchers get the same kind of stuff on hitters. The scouting reports and video and all teh other stuff are Not only for hitters, they are used just as much by pitchers. And pitchers also have past at bats to look back on.

And, I have watched MLB batting practice dozens of times, and no they dont get BP at 90mph.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]

Not any more. Strike zone is top of the knee to a point midway between the belly button and the arm pits (how the ump is supposed to determine this is beyond me), when the hitter is swinging, and the black doesn’t count no’ mo’. Of course, we still see balls thrown a foot outside called strikes…

The folks who ump at the major league level are tremendously talented at what they do, but the advantages all go to the hitter nowadays as you say, JD. When was the last time they raised the mound? The strike zone is more of a strike postage stamp. The hitters have the latest and greatest training, gadgets, and can swing every day. The ball is live, too.

Add to that the fact of the number of teams has grown by leaps and bounds thereby watering down the available pitching talent…and you have the hitters ruling the game. Why would anyone want to pitch? :roll:

Hose

And its not that “some” are overpaid. It is that all are overpaid. If you hadn’t noticed the league minimum is something like $350,000 per year. And I’m sorry, but no athlete should make that much money for playing a game. Don’t get me wrong, I would take it too if they offered it to me.

But if you think about it, they make, on the league minimum, about the same salary as the President. Something seems a little stupid when the people making the league minimum (i.e. The crappiest players) make the same salary as the guy who runs the entire country.

[quote=“pitchking807”]And its not that “some” are overpaid. It is that all are overpaid. If you hadn’t noticed the league minimum is something like $350,000 per year. And I’m sorry, but no athlete should make that much money for playing a game. Don’t get me wrong, I would take it too if they offered it to me.

But if you think about it, they make, on the league minimum, about the same salary as the President. Something seems a little stupid when the people making the league minimum (i.e. The crappiest players) make the same salary as the guy who runs the entire country.[/quote]

Not to talk politics, but our current president spent about $20 million to get elected. For the pres, it ain’t about the money.

Hose

It all started with the @#$%^&* designated hitter!
The person who first thought of this was probably a pitcher who couldn’t hit. Many years later, it was put into effect—and the worst part is, it was only in the American League. So here we have what amounts to a double standard, and when it comes to the in-season interleague play—another lousy idea—here’s what we have. When games are played in the National League parks, the American League pitchers are at a distinct disadvantage because they have to bat, and most of them—I remember the old days when the woods were full of pitchers who knew what a bat was for—now most of them can’t hit their shoe size. And when games are played in the American League parks, the good-hitting pitchers of the National League—and there are quite a few of them, like Sabathia and Jason Marquis and Carlos Zambrano—are frustrated because they have to warm the bench in the dugout. I say, either the National League adopts the DH or the whole idea is scrubbed. It just isn’t working.
And then there’s the disastrous practice of mollycoddling the pitchers, babying them, not allowing them to go more than six innings because “we have to protect their precious arms”—if you’ll pardon my French, that is a load of crap. One major leaguer said that if you take a race course and train it to go just one city block, that’s all that horse will be able to do. Right. And that’s why so few are able to go deep into games, because they’re not being permitted to do so, and to compound the felony there are the pitch counts. IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!!
I’m willing to bet that Johnny Sain, Ed Lopat and a few others of that ilk would not only turn over in their graves, they would jump right out and start yelling all kinds of imprecations and invectives at this situation. They certainly believed in having a pitcher go as long as he could. :x

IMO , it all began with the alluminum bat … and pitchers no longer developing the skill to pitch inside.

Zita and terprhp, the skill level imo isn’t decreasing though…amen about the rotten changes the points ya’ll made have brought about.
This sort of change is made I think for “fans” (Actually what I call “Unfans”…people who watch but want instant gratification instead of the real art baseball is)…they don’t want a 3-4 hour masterpiece they want homers and scoring and that is what they get…courtesy of rules changes designed to minimize pitching duels and maximize the long ball…ain’t no way they’ll ever raise the mound again…or get rid of the DH…why they might lose some TV audience…so the pitcher has to be able to survive…enter the sinker and guys like The Great Greg, Webb, Zambrano…mark my words if that gets too effective…a rule change in some manner will follow.
Gotta hate it…but I don’t think there is a cure for greed.

[quote=“pitchking807”]And its not that “some” are overpaid. It is that all are overpaid. If you hadn’t noticed the league minimum is something like $350,000 per year. And I’m sorry, but no athlete should make that much money for playing a game. Don’t get me wrong, I would take it too if they offered it to me.

But if you think about it, they make, on the league minimum, about the same salary as the President. Something seems a little stupid when the people making the league minimum (i.e. The crappiest players) make the same salary as the guy who runs the entire country.[/quote]

sorry bud, but you can’t have everything your way. Players make that much money because it’s available to them. The ballclub/gm makes money off you guys the fans. You said you’ve been to atleast a dozen batting practices, therefore going to several big league games, thus probably buying merchandise and concessions. Not to mention, if you are willing to go to a game, then I’m sure you watch it on tv. What does all this mean? Dollars, dollars, and dollars. Don’t complain about a players salary when you more than contribute your fair share.

I’ve said it before reguarding atletes pay. No its not fair but everything in life isn’t fair. No point in complaining, the money is there and its getting used.

Nor is it “fair” I guess for Billy Joel & Bruce Springsteen to make a bazillion $$ per concert … get over it, it’s not a baseball issue.

I do believe that todays pitchers are more skilled ( as a group ) at throwing a baseball than pitchers in years past. I do not, however, believe that they are as skilled in the art of pitching …

Not really sure what “fair” means here. Do these guys deserve it? Why not? They are better than anybody in the world at what they do, and the fans in the seats are paying the salaries. Do you even know how much revenue is made during the course of a season? 81 home games, not counting playoffs, with concessions and merchandise and tv deals, how could the players possibly make less? Should the owners make more then? They are already making a boatload, and they don’t step on the field once! I’d say that they’re deserving. If you don’t think so, then you don’t understand how absolutely difficult it actually is trying to become a big leaguer, or how hard it can be playing minor league ball making 1200 a month for half the year, and some of the guys support a family!

pitchking807 wrote:

And its not that “some” are overpaid. It is that all are overpaid. If you hadn’t noticed the league minimum is something like $350,000 per year. And I’m sorry, but no athlete should make that much money for playing a game. Don’t get me wrong, I would take it too if they offered it to me.

Papibon:

It’s not a “game”: it’s a competitive business and the players are paid according to their market value so they are not overpaid in the economic sense. So, the question becomes: is this the type of business that fans and sponsors want to support? Clearly it is or the league would have folded long ago.

[quote]Pitchers get the same kind of stuff on hitters. The scouting reports and video and all teh other stuff are Not only for hitters, they are used just as much by pitchers. And pitchers also have past at bats to look back on.

And, I have watched MLB batting practice dozens of times, and no they dont get BP at 90mph.
[/quote]

yes they do get bp at over 90+
carlos beltran has a pitching machine that throws ball 200mph
dnt ask why heard it during a telecast

plus its more batters a pitcher has to face
plusplus the stress of throwing 90mph several times an at bat
all the batter has to do is hit a ball
the pitcher has to get 18 batters out a game just to be decent (depends on position)
plus others have options if they cant hit they can be good fielders(vice versa)

dont forget pitching is the second hardest position in baseball(behind catcher)
you got to have a pitcher and a catcher where as a infielder can play other spots (A-Rod SS/3B)
pitchers have to stay in better shape than other players
have the most risk of injury(hotshots, brokenbats)

come on now

yes hitters may get BP at 90+ but it it would be in the batting cages in the stadium. At there live bp right before a game the BP pitcher is throwing about 70-75.

Bower, Papibon and Hammer sum it up pretty good.

Are some or most of these guys overpaid? In the eyes of joe public yes, yes they are very much over paid.

But look at a lot of things in life most is over paid. We over pay for gas, the price of food has shot up, in some places the cost to heat your house has been jacked up. Some people will say well yeah that’s true but we’re talking about ball players not the cost of living. We have 2 options with the cost of living, we either keep paying those redicilious prices or we lose things such as heat, hydro and food. In Baseball it’s much the same a team either pays the contracts (that might I throw in here are normally jacked up due to agents wanting a bigger share of money) or they lose their players to another team who will indeed pay that extra 1-3 million per year that the player or agent has requested.

But no matter what sport you look at there’s a rising inflation, the scary sport to look at is soccer you think someone like A-Rod or Dice-K is getting paid too much money look at their stars and the amount of money they are making.

It really comes down to supply and demand. The more you’re in demand for what you can supply the more money you stand to gain from your services.

its not supply and demand
they can get anyone to pitch or play

the fact that every team wants the best
any guy that plays baseball will play at a major league level if asked
but the ones that excel/stand out are the ones tha gm want
every player wants to play and likes to play
every gm wants to win

this topic shouldnt be applied to the pitchers
all players
every pitcher has the ability to give you a quality start like ever batter has the ability to hit a walk off

guys like CC, A-Rod, Matsuzaka, Santana, K-Rodand many other deserve the money and its alot that dont get enough