Enough is enough

RHP,

There is nothing in the rules that says only those with talent may post videos and ask for advice. This site is about America’s past-time which is and should be accessible to all. Yes, many who participate here are very serious and are striving to make it to a high level. But there is no reason that level of discussion can’t exist side by side with more basic, beginner-level instruction.

I check out certain other baseball discussion sites and I can honestly say that this site has more youth participation that any of the others. That is awesome. Even if the information isn’t always entirely correct, there is tremendous value in the open dialog and in everyone feeling able to participate without fear of ridicule or intimidation. Too many other sites have “experts” whose purpose seems to be only to put down others and to demonstrate how much they know. Those folks tend to chase away the youth participants. This site is different. This site is special.

Seems as though there are more youth participants than adult participants than before.

Anyone who visits this forum for advice has to realize that the info given is free and is only worth that much. You get what you pay for.

I’m with Roger on this being a place where anyone can come and get some advice, whether they are on a path to the bigs or just trying to get better in their recreational leagues. That, too, is a valid reason for posting video and asking for help. Some just want to have some fun and improve to the best of their abilities. We’re here for that too.

I don’t think that would be the right thing to do. I think they’ll know when it is time to stop pitching because of lack of talent, skill, or desire - other pitchers don’t need me to make fun of their mechanics or to criticize their efforts to get better. I know I wouldn’t like it if someone did that to me - I wouldn’t come back. I bet many of the pitchers here that don’t meet your level of approval have never had any training by anyone that knows about baseball or pitching - isn’t that what this site is for.

Many of the people on this site know more about pitching then my middle school coach who played second base in college and couldn’t even teach me to throw a curve ball or change-up.

I just don’t think its our job to crush someone’s spirit like that.

[quote=“RHP…”]

Let’s face it. Some people just aren’t meant to play baseball. Some are. I am getting sick of seeing people post videos and ask for advice when what they really need is for someone to give them an honest opinion on where they stand.[/quote]

OK, OK, I have to get on you about this, RHP :slight_smile: Look, at 13 and 14 years old, it’s impossible to judge someone’s potential. I never once in three years of Little League made the All Star team. (That stayed with me all throughout my career, because all my friends were on the team and I felt left out.) Yet three years later, at 15, I was throwing 80 mph and starting for the No. 2 high school baseball team in NY. All those Little League All Stars? They were playing JV or had already quit to play other sports or video games.

My point is that if someone had looked at me when I was 12 and 13 and said, “this guy sucks, he’ll never make it, he can’t even make the LL all star team” it wouldn’t have been accurate. And it wouldn’t have been helpful; it would have been hurtful. Sometimes, kids just develop later. For a couple of kids I played with in pro ball, it happens a lot later, like after high school.

I’d rather see someone with a sincere work ethic, than someone with a lot of talent at 12 and 13 years old. The kid with work ethic always wins. Always. And posting and asking questions on the forums is, in a sense, a kids way of showing that he really cares, and that he’s willing to work at it despite the uphill challenges ahead. That’s the kid I want on my team … but I still want you on my team, too, RHP :slight_smile:

The thing I’d add to this is, our one act of legitiment kindness may in fact change a life. Taking someone seriously is perhaps one of the greatest confidence boosters in the world. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it candy-coated here, if a kid has visable issues they are addressed. What I get from you is that we should just say…“hey you suck”, “get off the forum”, like they don’t have a right to be here, or that some kid who may want to help doesn’t have the right to try…Are you going to be the judge of that? I agree and disagree with xv, it’s free but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value…just the spirit of giving and helping is worth more than the other guru sites that don’t mind slamming and oppressing discussion. From time to time we have one poster get frustrated with another…sometimes the Admins have to step in…If you don’t like one thread…well we have many other threads…Lighten up Francis :wink:

[quote]2.) The people who responded give the person advice that is decent, but what the person really needs is someone to tell them that they have reached their limits.

Let’s face it. Some people just aren’t meant to play baseball. Some are. I am getting sick of seeing people post videos and ask for advice when what they really need is for someone to give them an honest opinion on where they stand. [/quote]

RHP, you have reached your limits.

To jdfromfla: Right on! I agree with you 110 percent. If someone comes on here just to slam and disrespect and put down someone else, he’s in the wrong place—he really should go on one of the major league teams’ websites where that’s all they seem to be doing these days. I used to hang around the New York Yankees’ website a lot, but I stopped doing that when the whole thing turned political, and nasty political at that. I’m here because I’m sincerely interested in this whole business of pitching, and having played for a number of years I like to think I know something about it, and if there is anything I can say that will help, that will turn another pitcher around and get him back on track, I’ll say it.
For example: there was a poster on another forum that wasn’t sure whether he was going nuts or not. He said he was all right for the first three or four innings or so, then he just collapsed, and he was wondering whether it was all mental. I read that post, and I told him that I didn’t think it was mental at all, and I gave him a couple of ideas. I told him he should take a look at his mechanics, because it was possible something wasn’t quite right there, and he took my advice and talked to his coach, and the coach watched him and told him what he was doing wrong. Now the problem has been taken care of, and what’s more, he has a chance to work with an experienced pitcher before his league tryouts begin. :slight_smile: :baseballpitcher: 8)

Zita, too bad you couldn’t have made Lakeland this last week end…great ball…My sons team won it all “The Sunshine State Games” champion Jacksonville Heat, he picked up the win 2nd game Saturday, 5 complete 2 earned 10-2.

RHP, i get where you’re coming from. There is this guy that goes to my school, he probably works harder than everyone i’ve ever seen, but doesn’t realize his talent level is really none at all. He talks to us about going to the big leagues, and then we he gets cut from all the teams, he goes on rampages(no joke). And like Steven said though, yes sometimes talent isn’t truly exposed until later, but i think people need to realize their limits, so they aren’t too disappointed when they realize they can’t make it as far as they wanted. As for 13 and 14 year olds…baseball is meant to be fun, when they post on here, you don’t know what level they are playing at, they could just want to improve on their skills, nothing wrong with that.

So, RHP, i get where you are coming from because of this example i have provided you, but still, on a website…i started playing baseball when i was 13, so i don’t really know what it’s like exactly, but that first year…i was just having fun. FUN is the most important part of baseball, if you don’t enjoy it now you aren’t going to enjoy it for the rest of your baseball life. Just keep in mind that they may not be striving to be big leaguers :).

dono man i agree on you with the 13 yr olds giving advice on stuff they know nothing about but not on the telling someone they’ve reached there limits. if you think they suck or arnt good just dont respond to there video…thats easy right? i dont think anyones reached there limits until they have pitching ending injury or until there 35 but im 100% with you on the people giving a paragraphed speach on somones pitching mechanics then posting there 60mph mechs. i just dont think anyones reached there potential thats still as much into it as some of these kids are

[quote=“Steven Ellis”][quote=“RHP…”]

Let’s face it. Some people just aren’t meant to play baseball. Some are. I am getting sick of seeing people post videos and ask for advice when what they really need is for someone to give them an honest opinion on where they stand.[/quote]

OK, OK, I have to get on you about this, RHP :slight_smile: Look, at 13 and 14 years old, it’s impossible to judge someone’s potential. I never once in three years of Little League made the All Star team. (That stayed with me all throughout my career, because all my friends were on the team and I felt left out.) Yet three years later, at 15, I was throwing 80 mph and starting for the No. 2 high school baseball team in NY. All those Little League All Stars? They were playing JV or had already quit to play other sports or video games.

My point is that if someone had looked at me when I was 12 and 13 and said, “this guy sucks, he’ll never make it, he can’t even make the LL all star team” it wouldn’t have been accurate. And it wouldn’t have been helpful; it would have been hurtful. Sometimes, kids just develop later. For a couple of kids I played with in pro ball, it happens a lot later, like after high school.

I’d rather see someone with a sincere work ethic, than someone with a lot of talent at 12 and 13 years old. The kid with work ethic always wins. Always. And posting and asking questions on the forums is, in a sense, a kids way of showing that he really cares, and that he’s willing to work at it despite the uphill challenges ahead. That’s the kid I want on my team … but I still want you on my team, too, RHP :-)[/quote]

I never made it to your level Steve but I too was never selected to any all-star teams for my first years of playing ball, I was pretty much the kid you stuck out RF to hide. Then when I hit 13 something clicked, I ended up being the #1 starter for my HS team until I had a freak football injury to my throwing elbow and had to move to SS.

The little kid that got stuck in RF ended up playing college ball, you never know. Work eithic has alot to do with it. I believe baseball is one sport that if you put in the hard work it will pay off.

[quote=“Steven Ellis”][quote=“RHP…”]

Let’s face it. Some people just aren’t meant to play baseball. Some are. I am getting sick of seeing people post videos and ask for advice when what they really need is for someone to give them an honest opinion on where they stand.[/quote]

OK, OK, I have to get on you about this, RHP :slight_smile: Look, at 13 and 14 years old, it’s impossible to judge someone’s potential. I never once in three years of Little League made the All Star team. (That stayed with me all throughout my career, because all my friends were on the team and I felt left out.) Yet three years later, at 15, I was throwing 80 mph and starting for the No. 2 high school baseball team in NY. All those Little League All Stars? They were playing JV or had already quit to play other sports or video games.

My point is that if someone had looked at me when I was 12 and 13 and said, “this guy sucks, he’ll never make it, he can’t even make the LL all star team” it wouldn’t have been accurate. And it wouldn’t have been helpful; it would have been hurtful. Sometimes, kids just develop later. For a couple of kids I played with in pro ball, it happens a lot later, like after high school.

I’d rather see someone with a sincere work ethic, than someone with a lot of talent at 12 and 13 years old. The kid with work ethic always wins. Always. And posting and asking questions on the forums is, in a sense, a kids way of showing that he really cares, and that he’s willing to work at it despite the uphill challenges ahead. That’s the kid I want on my team … but I still want you on my team, too, RHP :-)[/quote]

I completely agree. My freshman year of hs I made the freshman team as an outfielder. Sophomore yr I made it as a pitcher but pitched like 3 innings couldn’t throw a strike and couldn’t throw hard. Jr yr I was cut from varsity. Sr I made it, my velocity increased a little, maybe the high 70s thats it only pitched in like 3 games. I didn’t have a growth spurt or anything like that, in fact I’ve only grown 2 inches since I was 13 and I’ve actually lost weight since I was in high school. I now just turned 21 this month, I pitch in college now and throw in the high 80s consistently and have reached the mid 90s before. I’ve come a huge way from where I was and according to RHP, I probably should have been told I’d never make it. I met people like RHP when I was in high school who constantly reminded me how slow I was throwing and I have to thank them, because whenever I felt, or feel like stopping or I’m out of gas or I need a little more on a pitch, I think of people like RHP and it gives me the motivation I need. I remember a kid my freshman yr in college say why do you watch all these clips and read all these books, and I told him because one day I’m gonna throw 90 +, and he laughed and said its impossible to increase that much and I just said to him that’s why you’ll never make it anywhere because with that attitude there’s no way you’re going to keep improving. He never improved and he doesn’t play baseball anymore.

Another example of great improvement is a good friend of mine. He got cut freshman year of hs, didn’t play soph yr, came back jr year at 16 yrs old throwing 88 mph, he now sits 93-95 and has about 15 scouts at every game he plays.

Yet another example is my brother. Never made an allstar team in little league, was never the most coordinated kid, but worked his ass off and by sr yr in hs he was the best pitcher on, and team captain of his hs team and got a scholarship to college and went on to be rookie of the year his freshman year putting up some of the best numbers in his league.

Could there be more examples? Yes! A friend of mine from hs was a mediocre lefty. Walked on at a CC, transfered to a real weak d2 school. Through gradual improvement hes now hitting 90 and just signed on to play independent pro ball in TX.

I have another friend who never played varsity ball and is now pitching on a D1 team. And another that was cut is fr year and is now playing D1 and has 2 or 3 big league teams looking at him. and another who was cut twice in hs and went to a school for medicine that had a d3 prog, by the time he graduated college he was hitting 97 mph and was drafted in 2005.

There are so many more examples I could give but I think I got my point across, I think telling a kid he can’t is ridiculous, there’s no telling what he can do. I don’t feel anyone on this site, even if Greg Maddux, Sandy Koufax, Pedro and the Rocket were members of this site, are worthy of making that kind of definitive judgment that a kid has no chance what so ever. Everyone has the right to an opinion but if you don’t think a kid is good enough and you don’t have enough knowledge or compassion yourself to try to help him out, you should just keep you mouth shut and not say anything to him, not go and possibly crush his dreams by telling him he’ll never make it.

Sorry now I’m ranting, I just don’t understand who some people think they are.

back to what steven ellis was saying i mean for example danny almonte he was the biggest thing ever in little league (ignore the fact that he was 14 for a second) and is he in the bigs now i didnt think so. sucess now isnt guranteed later. Actually i found that kids who are good younger turn out worse because they peak at a young age. or are pushed to hard to succeded and quit just an assumption

[quote=“Patrick”]i think people need to realize their limits…
[/quote]

Yep, I agree. This pertains to both asking questions and giving advice. But no one has the right or should take the responsibility to tell another that he “doesn’t have what it takes” based on a video or two. This forum is for ALL folks who want to pitch better. If the poster is a 12 yo without much talent or an 18 yo who is looking to get drafted, we are here for that kid. Who knows what the 12 yo can accomplish with hard work and the right attitude. Maybe he’ll only be able to make JV on his High School team, or play summer ball and get to pitch a tournament game or two. That may be the biggest moment of his baseball career and something he can remember for his entire life.

I for one and proud to be able to give what poor counsel I am capable of for those who are willing to heed it and take it for what its worth… Regardless of talent level or age.

If you look through these pages you’ll find several kids who have made the leap to college ball and we all applaud their success. But there are those whose success lies in other areas, and we need to applaud those folks too. They have given it 110% and may not have achieved the same level of success as the kid who starts for his college team, but they have surpassed the goals and expectations that others have set

for them, and in that they have achieved perhaps more than the college starter. They have proven themselves to be winners. I applaud all who post here looking for a slice of the American dream.

Hose

RHP, dont just direct it at younger people, direct it at people in general who post crap that doesnt help anything. in a recent post in the off topic forum, futurekazmir said there was somebody posting just to get thier user rank up. direct it at him. i believe there are a few youger people on here who may know what they are talking about.

Well RHP, considering on this forum you should be politcally correct becuase it wouldn’t be fair to tell someone they aren’t good at all. Now if you said that to me it would not affect me becuase I know that I am not a very good pitcher. Hell pitching isn’t even my thing. I am pitching this summer but I am going to work hard this offseason especially with the coach to hopefully get a decent releif position. I’m in an area with not very good baseball competition so me being a good varsity pitcher is in close reach. I’m going to use Krebers ball routine and hopefully gain some velocity. I know I have a lot to work on and I wouldn’t have minded anyone telling me that. But most people are politcally correct and would cry if anyone told them they sucked. This isn’t the place for that and no changing it. I know I have come a long way from where I was when I first started posting here. I don’t think I saved a before and after but I think now my mechanics are getting solid and my momentum is increasing. I haven’t even posted an updated version of my mechanics. Things that weren’t even close to there when I first started last year. I have learned a lot from here and I know that most soft minded individuals here would have gone away when someone critisized them. Its nice to give them a second change. (fair or not)

Baseball is a passion. I love baseball even though I’m not a great pitcher. I have tons of confidence as a hitter and this year on varsity I hit pretty well. Its a game of confidence and thats what you need to give not take away. Let me give an example. I worked my way as a sophmore to the number 3 spot for our first sectional (postseason game). We were a team of no seniors and qualified for the post-season and had to face the number 2 team. Of coruse with a number 2 team you have an ace. And will pitch their first game against us. He hadn’t lost and had some heat packing. Probably mid to high 80s. I had hit that speed in cages before and had confidence. Our first hitter struck out looking and our second swinging. Of course they didn’t swing at the first pitch thrown to them. Any hitter would want to see this fast pitcher at least once go by. Not me, I stepped up and the opposing caoch yelled number 3 show some respect. I took the first pitch for a ball but was ready to swing. Next pitch was inside corner and I fouled it back. Considering no one had touched him before (first inning) and I swung at the first strike this pitcher took no chances. That was it 3 strait balls. He sensed that I was up to par with him and didn’t take a chance with 2 outs so he didn’t give me a single good thing to hit. I walked then he got the number 4 out easily. Now if I had no confidence what would have happened? Get up there take 2 strikes and probably a weak swing at a bad pitch. But with confidence I made a very good pitcher show me some respect because I was up there swinging. Very simple confidence=success. No matter how bad you are to start off. Want to know my 2 other atbats that game from that pitcher? Sac squeeze bunt, no problem. Strike out on 3 pitches. :lol: Gave me 3 curves in a row. I was obviously outmatched but becasue I showed confidence I got at least a walk out of what would have been an out.

More? I was talking to a guy at the place I go to play ball in the winter and he was talking about a kid that went to his highschool who was the number 3 pitcher to a pretty big school and he talked about how everyone hated when he pitched because he wa so bad. The kid went to MCC which is a college that a lot of good atheltes from smaller schools around the area go to that don’t get looks from college guys. He went there and all of a sudden he was drafted to some MLB team. Probably didn’t take it or make it anywhere but still a feat from a crappy number 3 pitcher in an area where baseball can’t be played in the winter so its not a great area either. One kid at the place was like oh it was probably steroids when he got to college. The other kid was like ya know I thought about that but the only problem was the kid was ripped to begin with even during high school.

I may not be a great pitcher but I think I know a hell of a lot about pitching for 1 year and will continue to learn about it. Hopefully I can coach for some kind of a team in my future when my life gets setteled down. I would love coaching. But who knows I could hit a growth spurt and become a decent pitcher. You never know. I’m just not going to give up and work as hard as I can and if I don’t have it oh well life goes on.

Bower

:frowning: I see a lot of kids in my area give up on baseball because of attitudes similiar to RHP. You must always be realistic, but anyone can get better. I can tell alot by a video, but I have never been able to quantitate a players, attitude, work ethic, or potential just by watching him on camera. Limits are things other people place on you and they become real only if you believe them. The next time ask yourself, is it truley lack of potential on the players part or a lack of your ability to see what could be and how to get there?

There are no limits in this game…it’s a cycle of life. Play until the time comes that no one will have you. And then, if you do really love it…find a way to pass your passion of the game on to a youngster so HE has the opportunity to also enjoy the wonders of this great game.

I don’t buy into limits. There is something I can do everyday to improve my game. Even if its only a little.