Elbow Pain

Recently i have been having elbow pains in my pitching arm… not when i throw, but some hours after the elbow hurts when i extend it, i went to a sports medecine specialist she said its just the tendon from stress during the picthing motion…ive heard pronating the elbow helps but im not too sure what that is or it will help my case… does anyone have any idea why this is happening, or what should i do to prevent it?? im taking a months break from pitching n focusing more on running, band etc. here are my mechanics

Side View

Back View

Anyone have a clue???

que

?? :?:

lol

Jose,

Please consider buying a $30 tripod for videotaping your pitching mechanics.

The clips you posted are nearly unwatchable without dramamine.

The only thing I was able to see, and I’m not even sure because your video is too wobbly, is that it looks as though you may “stop at the top” of your leg lift before generating much forward momentum to the target.

Re: Your question about pronation…every pitcher’s forearm, wrist, and hand must pronate into follow-through immediately after the release of every pitch. It is inevitable…you don’t have to do anything special to make pronation happen unless you want to preset a pronated pitch grip like a screwball or most types of changeups. However, pitchers that throw improper breaking pitches–that is, breaking pitches where they misguidedly try to actively twist their hand/wrist/forearm into supination near the release point, may often be susceptible to elbow injuries.

You didn’t say whether you throw breaking pitches, or how many you typically throw, but if you don’t really know what you are doing when you throw breaking balls you should take the time to learn–after your rehabbing is successful.

laflippin pretty much said it all but I would stress the poundage you are putting on your arm. You do not have much muscle mass so any resistance you are subjecting your arm too is going right into your joints. When a shock wave of energy transfers through the body the major muscle groups will handle the bulk of the force but if your muscles are not strong enough to handle the resistance then the joints are the only thing left to take the blow. This is why your pain is in the tendon and not the meat of the muscle.

Arm injury is common in pitchers with your build and your age who are throwing often. You need to rest your arm to allow the joint to heal. Then I recommend the Olympic lifts because it is an excellent way to develop joint integrity.

[quote=“Hauser33”]laflippin pretty much said it all but I would stress the poundage you are putting on your arm. You do not have much muscle mass so any resistance you are subjecting your arm too is going right into your joints. When a shock wave of energy transfers through the body the major muscle groups will handle the bulk of the force but if your muscles are not strong enough to handle the resistance then the joints are the only thing left to take the blow. This is why your pain is in the tendon and not the meat of the muscle.

Arm injury is common in pitchers with your build and your age who are throwing often. You need to rest your arm to allow the joint to heal. Then I recommend the Olympic lifts because it is an excellent way to develop joint integrity.[/quote]

yea i just turned 16 n get clocked at 82 i dont throw too many breaking pitches but yea i understand what you mean, im starting a strength and conditioning program soon… but thank you

Pain at rest is a bad sign. You need to get a second opinion.

Some questions…

  1. Do you play ball year-round?
  2. Do you throw a cutter or a slider?

Also, while some pronation can occur naturally, that doesn’t mean that actively trying to pronate isn’t a good idea.

[quote=“newstarprospect08”]Side View


[/quote]

In this clip it looks like you’re doing the “fingers on top of the ball and show the ball to CF/2B” thing.

Were you taught to do that?

This could be part of the problem.

re: “Also, while some pronation can occur naturally, that doesn’t mean that actively trying to pronate isn’t a good idea.”

-------As I mentioned, it is readily demonstrable that pronation must occur after the release of every pitch (using traditionally accepted mechanics). This is a biomechanical inevitability of follow-through that allows the throwing arm to wrap around the front of the torso.

As I also mentioned, presetting pronation of the forearm, wrist, and hand is necessary for screwballs and most types of quality changeups. There is no clear way to throw an acceptable fastball, curveball, or slider with preset pronation (although I wouldn’t be surprised if cult leader Mike Marshall claimed there was). Since pronation does occur after release of each and every one of these pitch types, it is unclear to me why pitchers should “try to pronate”. One might as well counsel bears to cr*p in the woods…they are going to do it anyway.

In fact, an emphasis on “trying to pronate” is truly misguided because it takes away focus from the importance of learning how to properly release curveballs and sliders. It’s not the stuff that inevitably must happen after release of those pitches that is important to work on, the training point is to grip and release those pitches correctly so that there is not more resultant stress than necessary from them as the pitcher goes into inevitable pronation.

In my opinion, Chris O’Leary is still tooting Marshall’s horn here…i.e., Marshall has been trying to “sell” pronation as something he personally invented for years and Chris has fervently bought into Marshall’s various claims for years. Mike Marshall also claims that Isaac Newton’s Laws of Motion are uniquely on his side and that only he can guarantee 100% injury-free pitching at the highest competitive levels of baseball. Pure voodoo cult stuff. Absolute drivel.

Chris, you’ve said a couple of times now on various forums (including this one) that you have recently “distanced yourself” from Marshall. On the other hand, a brief perusal of your website shows that you still claim to be “40 % influenced by Marshall”, whatever that may happen to mean. But, regardless of what you mean, that number hasn’t changed for years, nor has your enthusiastic “Marshall 101” short-course, wherein you purport to teach Marshall’s mechanics ideas to “ordinary people”.

Then please demonstrate it.

To maximize pronation, you have to preset supination, not pronation. If you preset pronation (e.g. show the ball to CF) you force supination through the release point, which increases the load on the UCL.

Marshall’s got a lot of good stuff, even if his arm action stuff isn’t great. House got his pronation stuff from Marshall. Wolforth’s conditioning stuff came from Marshall via Nyman.

Then please demonstrate it.[/quote]
Chris, you like to use still photos so surely you can find lots of pictures showing the hand/wrist/forearm in a pronated position right after release. I know I’ve seen many such pictures.

To maximize pronation, you have to preset supination, not pronation. If you preset pronation (e.g. show the ball to CF) you force supination through the release point, which increases the load on the UCL.[/quote]
Sounds like you’re saying presetting supination before release leads to “maximized” pronation (what ever that means) after release. I’m not sure that’s true. But, regardless, when talking about pronation, we have to specify when we’re talking about. In order to throw a screwball or a changeup that tails, pre-release pronation is called for. In this case, presetting pronation (as in before the hands have separated) may help though I’m not convinced it’s necessary. In any case, pitchers need to “try to pronate” if we’re talking about pre-release pronation. Pronation that happens after release happens automatically. It is a biomechanical inevitablilty and no thought need be given to it.

You left out Mills. He got his stuff from Marshall, too. Right? :roll:

Chris,

If you look at Tom House’s “The Winning Pitcher”, published in the late '80s I believe, as an outgrowth of motion analysis research he was doing while also employed as the pitching coach of the Texas Rangers, you will find 2 pages of discussion and clear photographs concerned with the biomechanical inevitability of pronation after every pitch type.

So, let me get this straight…you claim Tom House took that from Marshall about 20 years ago and you also think it is consonant with what you and Marshall believe about pronation? Ummm…you’re dreaming. Again.

Please show, Chris, with one video clip that is of sufficient quality to answer the question that pronation, or not, is actually not inevitable in a traditional pitch delivery. The onus is on you, and any other interested Marshall cultists, to verify that there is a traditional pitch with a traditional follow-through that does not require pronation after release. I am unable to find any evidence of that but, since you seem to be sure of the contrary, I want to see your evidence. Just one video clip that proves your (Marshall’s) point, okay?

On the hsbbweb site you were claiming that you don’t pronate when you skip rocks…as if your opinion on rock skipping were relevant to this kind of discussion. As a special concession, if you can provide a quality video of yourself skipping rocks that proves you don’t pronate after release of the rock, we can discuss that, too.

[quote=“Chris O’Leary”][quote=“newstarprospect08”]Side View


[/quote]

In this clip it looks like you’re doing the “fingers on top of the ball and show the ball to CF/2B” thing.

Were you taught to do that?

This could be part of the problem.[/quote]

I dont do that at least i havent seen watching my videos… i point the ball towards short… like i understand what you are saying but it is something i have read n been told not to do n im sorry but my camera is too blurry so i understand why you thought i did… so i still dont know why the pain happens if muscle build is the case why is tim lincecum’s 5’10 150 lbs body not causing difficulty?

Pain at rest is a bad sign. You need to get a second opinion.

Some questions…

  1. Do you play ball year-round?
  2. Do you throw a cutter or a slider?

Also, while some pronation can occur naturally, that doesn’t mean that actively trying to pronate isn’t a good idea.[/quote]

I train at my academy in Venezuela during the summer come here play fall ball at minor league then i train by my self with other people using drills taught in the academy then from about april till june i rest the arm and focus on running until i go back to venezuela… i do not throw breaking pitches due to the fact that we are not allowed to in venezuela until we are 16… which i just turned so i am developing it but not throwing at games i throw a 4 and 2 seam fastball i will not throw cutter or slider until i am older… the pain happens only when i extend the elbow so i dont know if it is a slight hyperextension of it or something close to it…?

“come here play fall ball at minor league”

sorry not minor league i meant little league

Two suggestiions may help. First your arm does not seem to get up fast
enough. At foot plant it is still behind you instead at the high cocked
position. (Check the cllips of Ryan and Cllemons from this site.)This is why you are throwing high, as in the clips from the stretch. In oreder to throw the ball low, you have to get the ball up first. Second, use your hips and core more to throw. These two things could be a solution. Your arm will not be out of position, and you will be using your body to throw.

[quote=“nick nickason”]Two suggestiions may help. First your arm does not seem to get up fast
enough. At foot plant it is still behind you instead at the high cocked
position. (Check the cllips of Ryan and Cllemons from this site.)This is why you are throwing high, as in the clips from the stretch. In oreder to throw the ball low, you have to get the ball up first. Second, use your hips and core more to throw. These two things could be a solution. Your arm will not be out of position, and you will be using your body to throw.[/quote]

yea i see what you mean i am rushing i need about 2 more weeks before i can start to throw again but i will remember that advice, what do you suggest i do to use the hips n core more?