Elbow hurting


#1

My Elbow hurts bady, the bone. It hurts a couple hours after i pitch and then for 2 more days. Im only 13 and i DONT throw a curve or slider, so i dont no why this is happing. If you could mention something that could be happing i would apperacite


#2

It’s hard to tell without seeing you throw, but my first guess is that you are throwing with a low elbow. Meaning, that when you throw, your elbow is lower than your shoulder, and your hand possibly underneath the ball instead of on top.

Have someone watch you, or take video when you throw, or do “dry” throws (without a ball) in front of a mirror to check and see where your elbow is upon release.

Also, when you break your hands, both thumbs should be pointed down toward the ground, then move up smoothly to form a “U”. When the ball has reached its highest point behind your head, the ball and your fingers should be pointing toward second base. This is easily checked by the mirror (this time witht he ball in your hand); slowly go through your motion, facing the mirror, and stop when your throwing hand goes all the way up and back behind you. If you can see the ball, then you might be placing undue stress on your elbow. Instead, you should be seeing your knuckles.


#3

[quote=“Bostonsportlova”]My Elbow hurts bady, the bone. It hurts a couple hours after i pitch and then for 2 more days. Im only 13 and i DONT throw a curve or slider, so i dont no why this is happing. If you could mention something that could be happing i would apperacite[/quote]my guess is your a slinger, meaning your elbow is below your shoulders, try getting that elbow up


#4

Which bone hurts? Which part of the bone? You may have a growth plate injury.


#5

By any chance do you throw a splitter or a forkball? when i learned the splitter i found out first hand that it puts a tremendous amount of stress on your elbow.


#6

All good advice, especially the “dry throws” in front of the mirror - immediate feedback that I encourage all my kids to do ( of course I doubt they actually do it ! ) . When I was younger , this was a standard routine I had at home in between starts that was very helpful …

Having said that … the elbow is nothing to mess around with , if it was my son I’d get him in to see a Dr. specializing in this area immediately .


#7

Actually, there is nothing wrong with throwing the with elbow slightly below the level of the shoulder. Instead, you absolutely do not want to bring the elbow above the level of the shoulder.

Second, I know that the idea that you should show the ball to second base (or center field) is very common advice, but it’s also very bad advice. The problem is that to do this you have to pronate the forearm at this point. As a result, you then have to supinate (twist clockwise) the wrist to get the palm to face the target. This focused the load on the UCL and causes the bones of the elbow to slam together. It is better to show the ball to third base at the high cocked position. This enables you to pronate the forearm as the elbow extends, which protects it.


#8

How much do you play during the year?
How many games per week?
How many innings do you pitch a week?
What pitches do you throw?

Have you been to a doctor? If not, you should.


#9

Please do not follow this advice.

While it’s fine if you tilt your shoulders, you absolutely do not want to move your elbow above the level of your shoulders.


#10

As you can see there’s plenty of disagreement about what might or might not be causing your problem. My guess would be overuse, regardless of mechanics, causing valgus overload syndrome or a growth plate injury but it doesn’t matter.

There shouldn’t be any disagreement about what you need to do.

GET TO A DOCTOR RIGHT AWAY!

Preferably a sports medicine doctor or an orthopedist.

By the way, my son whose elbow problem seems to be a lot less painful than yours is going to see the doctor this morning.

Once you’re done with that try to hook up with a good pitching coach and if your parents can afford it an athletic trainer who is used to working with pitchers. Don’t rely on pitching mechanics advice from the internet.


#11

Actually, there is nothing wrong with throwing the with elbow slightly below the level of the shoulder. Instead, you absolutely do not want to bring the elbow above the level of the shoulder.

Second, I know that the idea that you should show the ball to second base (or center field) is very common advice, but it’s also very bad advice. The problem is that to do this you have to pronate the forearm at this point. As a result, you then have to supinate (twist clockwise) the wrist to get the palm to face the target. This focused the load on the UCL and causes the bones of the elbow to slam together. It is better to show the ball to third base at the high cocked position. This enables you to pronate the forearm as the elbow extends, which protects it.[/quote]

Chris, I’d like to see references that support your theories and denounce the “very bad advice”. If I’ve been teaching pitching and throwing incorrectly for the past 20 years, I need to change (and I’m open to doing so).

I do see your point in getting the elbow too high; it could possibly lead to an impingement in the shoulder. However, it’s usually more common to see youngsters throwing too low. And I have to disagree: throwing with a low elbow will increase the likelihood of elbow tendinitis and shoulder injury.

As far as the palm to 2B thing, I’m not following your thoughts on pronation / supination. But that is because I’m assuming that a pitcher is using the rotation of his hips to bring the ball toward the release point. If there is proper hip rotation, then there should be almost no twisting of the wrist. This is easily seen by standing in front of a mirror and simply rotating; no arm or wrist movement is necesary to get the ball to face home plate.


#12

This advice is based on a very common misconception; that when throwing a baseball a player comes to the high cocked position and, as they rotate their shoulders, their pitching arm stays in the high cocked position (e.g. upper arm horizontal at the level of the shoulders and forearm vertical) as is shown in the picture below…

They then release the ball.

If this was the case, then showing the ball to 2B would make sense since at the end of the rotation of the shoulders you would be showing the ball to home plate.

But it’s not the case.

That is why Chris Carpenter is not showing the ball to Second Base in the photo above.

The problem is that what really happens is that, as the shoulders start to turn, the pitching arm side upper arm externally rotates so that forearm bounces or lays back to a horizontal position. You can see this process starting in the photos below of Chris Carpenter…

…and you can see full external rotation in the photo below…

As the shoulders stop turning, the elbow rapidly extends (or flies out) the 90 degrees that it is bent…

…and ends up like this…

I prefer that pitchers show the ball to third base, as Chris Carpenter is doing in the first photo above.

If you want to see a more in-depth examination of what happens to the arm as a pitcher throws the ball, go to my web site and read my document…

You can also see this process happen in most of the analyses that I have posted to my web site…


#13

I agree.

While having the elbow too low will reduce the velocity of the throw, I haven’t seen any evidence that supports the idea that dropping the elbow increases the risk of elbow or shoulder injuries.

What’s more, many great throwers (e.g. Greg Maddux and Nolan Ryan) sure look like they drop their elbows if you look at high speed video of their motions.


#14

The only problems in throwing with a low elbow (e.g. sidearm) is that there is a tendency to supinate the hand/wrist (which is hard on the elbow) and there is a tendency to open the shoulders too early (which is hard on the shoulder).


#15

Your example of Cris Carpenter, in the first photo, is showing his hips already starting to turn. I’d like to see the few frames before he got to that position.

The second picture looks like he’s cocking the pitch for a curveball, so I wouldn’t use it as an example of supporting your theory.

After re-studying many hours of slo-mo video, I might agree with your checkpoint of “high cocked position”. However I’m going to cling to the practice of the ball being in a position such that it is facing 2B as the arm rises from the side of the body (after the hand break), as it is a stress-free, no-strain movement. It’s as basic and tension-free as standing with your hands at your sides, palms facing body, and lifting the arms straight up into a “U” position. Maybe the ball faces 2B, maybe slightly toward the SS position, but not toward 3B; that’s more like throwing a football. We may be talking about two different checkpoints that are a few milliseconds away from each other.

BTW I have visited your site many times over the past few months and continue to visit … keep up the great work.

This advice is based on a very common misconception; that when throwing a baseball a player comes to the high cocked position and, as they rotate their shoulders, their pitching arm stays in the high cocked position (e.g. upper arm horizontal at the level of the shoulders and forearm vertical) as is shown in the picture below…

They then release the ball.

If this was the case, then showing the ball to 2B would make sense since at the end of the rotation of the shoulders you would be showing the ball to home plate.

But it’s not the case.

That is why Chris Carpenter is not showing the ball to Second Base in the photo above.

The problem is that what really happens is that, as the shoulders start to turn, the pitching arm side upper arm externally rotates so that forearm bounces or lays back to a horizontal position. You can see this process starting in the photos below of Chris Carpenter…

…and you can see full external rotation in the photo below…

As the shoulders stop turning, the elbow rapidly extends (or flies out) the 90 degrees that it is bent…

…and ends up like this…

I prefer that pitchers show the ball to third base, as Chris Carpenter is doing in the first photo above.

If you want to see a more in-depth examination of what happens to the arm as a pitcher throws the ball, go to my web site and read my document…

You can also see this process happen in most of the analyses that I have posted to my web site…


#16

Thank you so much for all the advice

Throwing next to a miror i found out that my shoulder and elbow are even

Also I did try to throw at splitter for a while but its wasnt any good

And the part that hurts is the one that sticks out on the side of your elbow
looking at your own elbow its on the left ---- prety hard to explain sorrry

Thanks again for the help


#17

Also my dad bulit me a pitchers mound in my backyard, its great and i have had it for a while but i guess in the long run its not

when i pitch with my dad i throw about 50 pitches and i cant throw any more because of my elbow

in games i can pitch over 75 and it wont hurt i think its because i concentrate on the game so much

I pitch average 70 a game
Probley around a 100 a week

Its only my elbow that hurts i have never had any problems with shoulder


#18

If you stand with your elbows at your side and the palms facing forward is it the bony part of the elbow closest to your body where it hurts, and possibly just a little bit toward your forearm? If so that would probably be medial epicondylitis or an avulsion of the growth plate in that location.

YOU NEED TO SEE A DOCTOR!!

You could very possibly be doing permanent damage to your arm. If you have avulsed the growth plate, which is quite likely for someone your age then a ligament or tendon has pulled a piece of bone out of your elbow.


#19

[quote=“joejanish”]Your example of Cris Carpenter, in the first photo, is showing his hips already starting to turn. I’d like to see the few frames before he got to that position.

The second picture looks like he’s cocking the pitch for a curveball, so I wouldn’t use it as an example of supporting your theory.

After re-studying many hours of slo-mo video, I might agree with your checkpoint of “high cocked position”. However I’m going to cling to the practice of the ball being in a position such that it is facing 2B as the arm rises from the side of the body (after the hand break), as it is a stress-free, no-strain movement. It’s as basic and tension-free as standing with your hands at your sides, palms facing body, and lifting the arms straight up into a “U” position. Maybe the ball faces 2B, maybe slightly toward the SS position, but not toward 3B; that’s more like throwing a football. We may be talking about two different checkpoints that are a few milliseconds away from each other.

BTW I have visited your site many times over the past few months and continue to visit … keep up the great work.

This advice is based on a very common misconception; that when throwing a baseball a player comes to the high cocked position and, as they rotate their shoulders, their pitching arm stays in the high cocked position (e.g. upper arm horizontal at the level of the shoulders and forearm vertical) as is shown in the picture below…

They then release the ball.

If this was the case, then showing the ball to 2B would make sense since at the end of the rotation of the shoulders you would be showing the ball to home plate.

But it’s not the case.

That is why Chris Carpenter is not showing the ball to Second Base in the photo above.

The problem is that what really happens is that, as the shoulders start to turn, the pitching arm side upper arm externally rotates so that forearm bounces or lays back to a horizontal position. You can see this process starting in the photos below of Chris Carpenter…

…and you can see full external rotation in the photo below…

As the shoulders stop turning, the elbow rapidly extends (or flies out) the 90 degrees that it is bent…

…and ends up like this…

I prefer that pitchers show the ball to third base, as Chris Carpenter is doing in the first photo above.

If you want to see a more in-depth examination of what happens to the arm as a pitcher throws the ball, go to my web site and read my document…

You can also see this process happen in most of the analyses that I have posted to my web site…

  • Chris O"Leary’s Professional Pitcher Analyses
    http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/PitcherInjuryAnalysisProject/Analyses/index.html
    [/quote][/quote] Joe, Good luck! Go have a look at Chris’s photo album of baseball pitchers this is pretty much how he studies baseball pitching. Im referring to still photos which may or may not be from the same pitch let a lone the same fricking season. I gave up a while ago realizing guys like Chris DONT KNOW and they dont know they dont know which in turn makes one word come to mind… DANGER!!! This guy is a BLOWHARD!!!

#20

This sounds to me like you are doing two things: first, you are probably not using your lower body enough. Second, you are probably throwing too hard too much. Little League elbow is what folks where I am from call a sore elbow that has been over worked. Some rest will probably help matters. It is possible that you have damaged a ligament, but most likely not.

BTW, I am 38 and I have currently have Little League elbow. While I usually throw a lot with my son I don’t usually throw BP for a whole team twice a day with good velocity. Because I am helping to coach a 15-16 yr old ALL Star team I have been throwing lots of BP and long toss with my son. This extra stress has been placed on my elbow because of too much work and not using my lower body enough. It has happened before - a couple weeks of taking it easy on the old elbow will do wonders.

Throwing every day or nearly every day is good, but over throwing is dumb.