Earned runs?

If there was men on first and second with one out who legitamitely reached base on a hit and walk and then the shortstop makes an error on a definite double play ball and gets no outs and then all three runs eventually score how many are earned?

My thought is that this is 0, Zero, earned runs for this inning. via secation ©, (d) and (f)

(b) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner who reaches first base (1) on a hit or otherwise after his time at bat is prolonged by a muffed foul fly; (2) because of interference or obstruction or (3) because of any fielding error.
© No run shall be earned when scored by a runner whose life is prolonged by an error, if such runner would have been put out by errorless play.
(d) No run shall be earned when the runner’s advance is aided by an error, a passed ball, or defensive interference or obstruction, if the scorer judges that the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay.
(e) An error by a pitcher is treated exactly the same as an error by any other fielder in computing earned runs.
(f) Whenever a fielding error occurs, the pitcher shall be given the benefit of the doubt in determining to which bases any runners would have advanced had the fielding of the defensive team been errorless.

yes that is what i was thinking. now would it still be 0 earned if 2 runs scored later in the inning on clean hits?

also what i was wondering was if there should have been that double play to end the inning if that cancels out all other runs that scored after that in the inning. and if in another inning there is a man on first who walked with no one out and another potential double play ball is muffed and those two end up scoring in the inning with 2 outs are those 2 earned?

From what I heard a double play is an assumed in mlb but not in high school. In the nfhs rule book it says reconstuct the inning without errors and passed balls If there are any doubts and see how many runs would score and any doubts whether a run would be earned,the pitcher shall be given benefit. rule 9-6-3

I was thinking the same … I don’t believe you can assume a double play in high school. But, it’s really up to your scorekeeper, honestly, since the score keeping in high school is so varied.

I don’t know how it is in the lower echelons of the game, but in the major leagues you can not assume a double play. 8)

Sorry smitty, but its impossible to answer correctly without knowing exactly what happened in the entire half inning. Most runs are very easy to determine whether or not they’re earned, but some really take some effort to figure out. Give me exactly what happened with each batter in the inning and I’ll tell you which runs, if any, are earned. It CAN also make a difference if pitchers are changed during the inning because you can get into team ERs as opposed to pitcher ERs.

As for the double play and whether or not it would/should/could have taken place, there’s nothing in any rule book I can think of that assumes a double play, no matter what the level.

From what I can tell from the given information, with runners on 1st and 2nd and 1 out, a ground ball was hit to the shortstop. He made a mechanical misplay that was scored an error, and the batter-runner reached 1st safely, loading the bases. That error is absolutely no different than if the batter had bunted and the pitcher misplayed the ball, an outfielder dropped a fly ball, or any of a hundred different errors allowing a batter-runner to reach 1st.

Assume the next batter hit a home run. Then 3 runs would be earned and 1 not. But in order to really tell, as I said, all of the other batters and what took place needs to be known.

You can’t assume a double play if the mishap occurs while trying to get the first out. So, man on 1st, grounder to short, if the shortstop bobbles, or if he fields and flips to the 2nd baseman who drops it, those are both situations where you CANNOT assume the DP, you can assume one out. Similarly, if the shortstop fields cleanly and gets the first out to the 2nd baseman and he then throws wildly to 1st, he cannot get charged with an error (unless the batter advances to 2nd) because it can’t be assumed he will make a good throw. This rule is simply in place to protect the middle infielder who has to deal with a sliding runner. The rule basically means that making the throw on a double play is not “routine.”

Now there is a select time when you CAN assume a DP. If the first out is achieved and a good throw is made to 1st for the second out and the 1st baseman drops it, it should be scored an E-3. Since the throw made it there and the catch for the 1st baseman is considered routine, you CAN assume he should have caught it and a DP should have been turned.