Drill Work-Comments Please!

I noticed that I still am trying to ‘muscle up’ the ball. Even in my last clip, that felt the best, I noticed that it wasn’t very good.

My front knee is moving forward, when it should be looked. My arm is tight, therefore, unable to externally rotate.

I think that my shoulders can still turn faster and more aggressively.

I believe my goals for my next time I do this drill should be the following:

-work on keeping my loose
-aggressively turn my upper body
-keep the front leg locked

Let me know if you see anything else! Thanks!

Jimster,
To me it honestly looks like your front side is opening too soon. Not enough hip shoulder separation. This could be the reason your arm stays tight and almost seems to muscle the ball forward.

As far as the external rotation or lack thereof, after watching your videos for some time, part of the problem may indeed be the tight arm. To me your legs look fine. The knee may drift a little but nothing major.

Keep up the hard work, guys like you who are constantly striving to improve are an inspiration to younger guys.

For this drill, I started with my hips already open. I was trying to isolate my upper body turn and the later parts of my arm action.

I think if I increase the speed of my shoulder turn and keep my arm loose, my external rotation will improve.

Thanks for the kind words!

[quote]I think if I increase the speed of my shoulder turn and keep my arm loose, my external rotation will improve.
[/quote]

I agree a loose arm with an increase in speed of shoulder turn may help with external rotation, but in order to increase the speed of the shoulder turn and keep your tempo in sync I really believe you need more hip shoulder separation. This comes from watching you May 11 video.

Oh. I completly agree. I think my shoulders open too early and that doesn’t allow my hips to get fully used

One thing you could try is to lead with your GS elbow to the plate. This may help keep you closed off longer and equate into the equal and opposite theory giving you more External rotation.

My son had the same problem and his pitching coach used this technique to stay closed off longer with the shoulders.

As usual I am the “contrarian”.

Per our discussion the other day, your lack of external rotation has little or nothing to do with hip separation. And what I perhaps did not emphasize enough is your biggest problem possibly the entire problem is you never learned how to use the muscles in your upper body properly to affect external rotation. Possibly because as with most pitchers you focused on throwing the ball with your hand.

High-level players look like they’re throwing with their elbow.

There is muscular action going from the high cock position to extra rotation which involves the elbow leading the way through muscular actions. Once the elbow leads the way then rotation of the shoulders creates forearm lag i.e. external rotation.

Until you figure out how to do this your chances of achieving or coming close to what you want for extra rotation are going to be very slim.

Here are some clips that I made many years ago to demonstrate the muscular actions associated with throwing with the elbow.

These animations are 100% correct in terms of what the body needs to do.

Enjoy !!

re: “These animations are 100% correct in terms of what the body needs to do.”

----The different position of the post-leg in clip #2, versus clip #3, suggests that one of the animations is not 100% correct. Or rather, how can they both be 100% correct with respect to “what the body needs to do”?

At first I thought that these were three different perspectives of one delivery, but that can’t be true. At the very least, the “active” upper half has been grafted on to two different “static” lower half frames, giving very different ideas about timing in this delivery.

Here’s a live representation that perhaps speaks more clearly to xj’s point about arm action and the leading elbow:

Padilla’s overall mechs may not be exactly right for you, but the clip may be helpful to look at.

laflippin,

Please keep posting because it shows how clueless you are, and how you have very severe reading comprehension problems.

I would expect nothing less of a Tom house sycophant.

My commentary and the illustration will respect to arm action. The animation was developed to show more graphically (you can ask you see muscle groups) what the shoulder complex needs to do to throw the baseball effectively.

From that perspective these are very correct anatomically and biomechanically.

This also represents a backwards chaining drill where you establish a static lower body position to which the upper body works against.

And for your information these are three different views of the same throwing sequence.

You continue to reaffirm the fact that you know nothing about developing movement patterns.

Your attempts to show how expert you are with posting a few lame studies is really pathetic. Have you ever had an original thought that actually has been applied to helping a player develop throwing capabilities?

Keep up the good work.

Thanks xj, glad to oblige.

Paul,
In reference to Jimster, you said,

In your opinion, is there correlation between hip/shoulder separation and external rotation in general or are the two just differing mechanical aspect that don’t really affect each other.

My feelings are that the longer the shoulder stays closed the more external rotation can be achieved. Am I off base with this?

Everything affects everything… 8)

The relationship (as I see it, my opinion) the rotational speed of the upper body i.e. shoulders and the distance that they rotate through.

There are two parts to the external rotation of the shoulder (Upper arm humerus).

Part one is what I tried to describe in my previous post i.e. the muscular action of the upper arm shoulder complex to get the elbow leading as shoulder rotation is occurring.

The second part being the actual rotation the shoulders. The faster the shoulders can rotate the greater the inertia lag of the forearm. Which then leads to greater external rotation.

Inertia lag being the tendency of the forearm to be left behind as the shoulders are rotating. So it’s not the distance “per se” of shoulder rotation that affects external rotation.

If you don’t get your elbow going properly and a “jumpstart” on external rotation by the elbow initiating the throw which predisposes the forearm to start laying back, you will not achieve maximum external rotation.

I believe this is the ONE of reasons why jimster is having such problems.

I believe this is the phenomenon of “movement occupies the time that it is allotted”. In other words the longer you stay closed the less time you have to get open and therefore you will get open faster i.e. greater shoulder rotational velocity. And as I said above the quicker the rotation the greater the potential for external rotation of the shoulder.

Again my opinions based on my understanding of throwing and experiences.

Paul, Thanks for the explanation.

Thanks for the video clips Paul!

I understand what you’re saying, it’s just a matter of video taping and reps.

I tried doing the same drill today that I did yesterday. I video taped it. I noticed that with my arm up, it tended to be tense, so I did a drill I received a while ago.

I video taped both, and I think that second drill I did will also be beneficial to my arm action/upper body action.

I will have to look at the videos to see how my ER looked because I have to do slo-mo on my computer. My arm and throwing motion felt better today.

I have to go ump in a little bit so they will be on here late tonight or tomorrow.

When I was working on that drill in the first video, it appeared that I was moving my upper torso faster than yesterday. But I will have to examine it further to be completely sure. Whatever I look like, I will definitely need to keep working on this part of my mechanics.

Thanks again for the clips!

re: “And for your information these are three different views of the same throwing sequence.”

—That may be true of the upper half–it’s hard to be sure, but let’s take your word for it.

However, I was questioning the value of a model, even if it is a gold-colored one, that appends a single top-half sequence on two different bottom-half images that are nearly static.

Surely, my good engineer, you are not claiming that the golden pitcher’s post leg is in the same position in clip #2 as it is in clip #3.

Take another look–maybe I am missing something.

But really, if you look at it carefully, or even casually if your visual acuity is good, it appears that clip #1 and clip #3 use the same bottom-half model while clip #2 uses a bottom-half representation that is completely different…#2 has his post foot very high, as it might be in the follow-through of a delivery, while #1 and #3 have the post foot toes-to-the-ground, as if this golden fellow was scratching out a drag line during his approach to the release point.

So…even if these are models for demonstrating something about backward chaining, it appears that your sequencing of the images is incorrect, no?

laflippin.

I apologize for losing it in my previous posts. All it does is turn people off.

That being said:

The animation is simply to show arm action. I find that some people find these types of animation helpful because you can get a much better understanding of how the body is being used i.e. you can at least see muscle groups working.

In terms of this being a static drill a lot of what backward shaping/backward chaining is about is working backwards and isolating different parts of the delivery. This is no different than houses drill where he has the player on his knees throwing without the benefit of the lower body.

There is no sequencing per se it simply different camera angles the software is able to capture. For example here is a quasi-fly around to demonstrate the capabilities of the software:

And I emphasize again I really don’t care about the lower body because the sole intent of this animation is to illustrate effective arm action which is determined by those actions that I explained previously.

jimster,

When we spoke on the phone I mentioned Jeremy Hellikson.

Here’s a clip showing the elbow action that is demonstrated in the animation:

He’s projecting the elbow Which puts his forearm in a good position to lay back due to shoulder rotation and to a certain degree thrusting his chest forwards.

[quote]If you don’t get your elbow going properly and a “jumpstart” on external rotation by the elbow initiating the throw which predisposes the forearm to start laying back, you will not achieve maximum external rotation.
[/quote]

Good posts, coachxj. Thanks for sharing the animation. Getting “your elbow going” and “the elbow initiating the throw” are interesting choices of words. Should the elbow ever become disconnected from the rotation of the shoulders (until after the ball is released)?

Thanks for the additional clips. I got home late from umpiring, so I’m going to post my clips tomorrow. I see what I need to do.

I just need to get out there and keep doing until it clicks and then move onto the next phase of my mechanics. Hopefully my clips show some improvements from the last one.

In the third part of the clip, it appears that I get a lot better external rotation. At least to me it looks like it was more external rotation than the first two clips.

It also looks like my shoulders are turning faster than my previous video, but I’m not 100% about that. I definitely see more external rotation in my last part of my video.

Let me know what you think, thanks!