Dr. Mike Marshall's Weight Program

Has anyone tried or have an opinion on his weight traing program. I know his theories on mechanics are out there and I am not in favor of his throwing mechanics.

My son’s HS coach has had a few kids on his weight training program where you put weights on your wrists and do various excercises and has had good success with it. I know two kids who swear by it. One said it really helped him with conditioning and he never felt sore even throwing in back to back games. The other kid increased his velocity from abt 65 as a freshman to 85 as a junior. He wants my son to do it also. My son is a freshman and throws ~75 with pretty good control. He is also pretty lanky and is 5’9" and about 135 lbs so some weight training might be in order, I am just leary because I have seen kids go crazy in the weight room and lose velocity.

Thoughts?

Funny that you would mention Marshall today. My son and I just got back from Wolforth’s pitcher’s bootcamp. They were modifying their pitching mechanics using Nyman’s stuff for the intial pitching mechanics and then using Marshall techniques after ball release to decelerate the arm. A partial Marshall technique so to speak. I initially took this with a grain of salt but at December’s coaches seminar, Brent Strom said that he was worried about Strasburg’s elbow health unless he learned to decelerate his arm without recoil. As for anyone in the majors using this technique, there are none. That said Tyler Matzek the Rockies 2009 first pick uses this technique.

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/scouting-tyler-matzek

They were using wrist weights al la Marshall. The drills will be in Wolforth’s New Combat Pitcher video that is due out in October.

As for weight lifting, check Eric Cressey’s website.

http://ericcressey.com/baseball-content

I would concentrate on pushups, rows, pullups, planks, Pallof presses, and deadlifts. Also, lots of medball throws and band work. don’t neglect flexibility.

If anyone remembers jd’s post about the new Marshall revisionism, this is what I was talking about and I’ve heard many express an interest in more information.

My opinion (having visited Marshall’s training center in Florida) is Marshall’s knowledge of throwing mechanics is lacking but his training ideas have merit (SAID: Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demand).

I agree wholeheartedly.

Additionally, Brian Matusz is the best widely-known hybridized pitcher in the professional ranks at the moment. He was coached by a Marshall certified instructor in California.

Interesting that Brent Strom and Ron Wolforth are using Marshall’s concepts in their bootcamps. It doesn’t surprise me; both are open-minded and have a good grasp on exercise science in general.

Interested persons can find out for themselves what Marshall’s stuff looks like. There are two people who devotedly coach from the Marshall manifesto who are posting their stuff on YouTube:

(1) dirtberry

(2) kharma1111

That said, jdfromfla’s comment about Marshall revisionism had me laughing out loud…as a long-time reader of the Zephyr Hills Gazette I think he rather understated the case than anything. dirtberry is the main guy who is trying to sell the idea that Tyler Matzek’s delivery is some fractional percentage or other of the “Full Marshall Tenets”, whatever that may mean. What it mostly seems to mean, as far as I can tell, is that Matzek’s forearm, wrist, and hand go into pronation after release of every pitch…just like for every other human baseball pitcher. This is stuff that Tom House wrote about explicitly in his 1988 book, “The Winning Pitcher”. (Ummm, for those of you who may be too young to be aware of it, the internet did not exist in 1988 and Mike Marshall has not published any of his theories anywhere other than on his weird website. Nevertheless, MM appears to want to be known as “The Father of Pronation”…maybe wants a patent on it so that he can earn royalties every time a pitcher pronates…for the matter of that, I wish I had a penny for every time a pitcher pronates after release of a baseball. I’d split that fortune 50-50 with jdfromfla and still be richer than Bill Gates.

Regardless of all this, Marshall has explicitly stated in his Q&A that Matzek is hampered by the numerous injurious flaws that are destroying the arms of all traditional pitchers.

The kid on kharma1111’s YouTube channel is, I believe, kharma’s nephew. Somehow or other kharma has convinced his own brother that the nephew must train only the Marshall Way and you can see the current results for yourself.

Wolforth/Strom’s use of the partial Marshall approach is as follows:

1.Forceful pronation after release. Get the throwing shoulder ahead of the glove side shoulder at relese(probably about 4-6 inches). Wrist weight and heavy ball(2 pounds) drills are used to teach this.

  1. Rotate around the posting leg so that the pitching shoulder is pointed to home plate. The pitching elbow should finish not crossing midline. This cause the lats and hip to aid deceleleration and takes stress off the shoulder and elbow. This also keeps the arm from recoiling at finish and further protects the elbow. This is similar to the old advice “to should the batter your hip pocket and finish showing the better your number.” It goes against the advice to land in good fielding position.

I think someone should make this point very clearly, so I will:

Everything in Mike Marshall’s conditioning protocols is meant to specifically train pitchers for throwing with Mike Marshall mechanics. Marshall is a monotheist, and he is the sole god of his little universe. He does not advocate anything connected with ‘traditional’ pitching mechanics, so…let the buyer beware.

Are there “gray areas” where some of his protocols may resemble the elements of training protocols used to condition pitchers for throwing with traditional mechanics? Perhaps…but you will need a decoder ring to figure them out and translate them back into ‘traditionalese language’ because Marshall is well-known for attaching his name and/or his special jargon to everything he thinks he invented.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kharma1111#p/u/21/8Lqljv3pmCk