Dr. Mike Marshall vs Regular motion

#1

Alright so I recently looked up the Dr. Marshall throwing technique and how he suggests to step back and then step forward and then pronating the hand for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUgQXJlTSaU

I began using the pronating tip and did see more movement on pitches however i could not use my legs as much as I would have liked. So what im asking if you use a regular throwing motion with pronation would it not be the same thing. You hear hitters say all the time that every hitter is different until the actual swing and then it is identical. What do you guys think?

#2

Here we go again. It’s a case of a pitcher who did things that were all right for him but then tried to get everybody else to do it, and it just doesn’t work that way. What he was describing is a contradiction in terms. You need to be able to use your legs, your hips and your torso in one continuous motion to generate the power behind your pitches, so that the flow of energy is continuous all the way through your shoulder and your arm all the way to your fingertips. As far as pronation and all that stuff is concerned, remember that he threw the screwball a lot. You probably don’t, so you’d best stick with what you’re cpmfortable with.
One of the things I will never forget about Eddie Lopat is that he had a basic premise: that every pitcher has a natural motion, and so what he did was work with that pitcher to help him (or, in my case, her) make the most of that motion. He never tried to change it. I was a natural sidearmer, so he worked with that to maximize my effectiveness with that motion. 8)

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#3

the shoulder is supposed to pronated naturally when you throw…you don’t need marshall mechanics to learn this. Wolforth has tons of pronation drills that he teaches, and he has jusstttt a bit better track record than Marshall.

#4

Pronation is not an action the shoulder can perform.

Wolforth’s pronation information originates with Dr. Marshall. In fact, Wolforth’s guys do a ton of “torque throws” which is simply Marshall’s cross-panel throwing drill. The same can be said about their wrist weight program. Do you think he figured that out on his own - prior to the 1980s when Marshall was using them?

Interesting that you bring up track record. Good luck beating Marshall’s pitching records at the MLB level. Additionally, you realize that anyone who achieves the level of success that Jeff Sparks (much less Rudy Seanez, if you give him that credit) reaches would be considered a resounding success in our community, no?

I’m no blind defender of Marshall, but facts are facts, sorry. And Wolforth himself will be the first to admit it.

#5

The best pronating tip that I could give you is this:

Look at an NFL quarterback (Tom Brady) throw a football. That visual will really stick in your head…

#6

I don’t know if getting a couple that far is huge bragging rights…though I’m not a Marshall disliker… er er literally hundreds of college folks have gotten players THAT far.
I respect his body of work, his personal acheivements and the dedication he brings/brought to injury rehabilitation…he didn’t invent pronating and Woolforth is wise enough not to re-invent something that Dr. Mike already came up with…He isn’t actively training folks now so it is up to his successors (Like Kyle and Dirtberry…Coach45) who take what he developed and implement it into their teachings.
Literally Kyle…you could certainly place more folks higher than Sparks…Rudy? Now that I believe is left open to interpretation…but we can certainly say that his influence is out there and gaining in areas.

#7

I’m just saying that it’s not like Marshall coached 600 guys with very minimal success. He’s coached a small group of guys, and some of them have done fairly well. Appearances in the show with a time in the high minors is impressive for anyone, especially a guy who was nothing in HS and college.

Again, I’m far from a blind defender of his and there’s a lot of reasons you can find fault with the man, but I disagree with Ben’s comments.

#8

Pretty decent respect for a man who is routinely excoriated by the faithful as apostate (-: by the “true believers”

#9

I’ve learned to be disliked by the traditionalists, the Marshallites, and plenty of others - all at once.

Some of the people that have the most critical information are the hardest to work with. If I let my ego get bruised and shut my ears simply to salve my own wounds, I’d not have learned as much as I have, and I’d be worse for the wear.

It’s a hard lesson once must learn, but one of the most valuable indeed.

#10

And hey, I understand Bens perspective. I have yet to meet anyone who is affiliated with a college or university who think differently. They routinely see guy acheive pro status so they tend to be derisive. Its all on how things “occur” to a person.

#11

Aside from Incarnate Word University, I assume? :wink:

That said, I’ve met a bunch of people who are open-minded, including coachxj’s acquaintance at Vanderbilt. They have an OK program, last time I checked. :slight_smile:

#12

I’d say Vandy is respected… 8)

#13

to my knowledge neither marshall or sparks used “Marshall mechanics” during their big league time…

kind of like how dick mills piggybacked on his son’s success despite his son not throwing anything like what he preached were good mechanics (he threw 95 mph using classic high level throwing mechanic as described by Paul Nyman)

#14

Seanez and Sparks look a lot like a hybridized Marshall guy. Seanez especially does.

And Sparks was nothing before he met Marshall, even by his own admission.

Yeah, the full Marshall body action (and distal sequencing, moreover) limits fastball velocity. I won’t dispute that. But Marshall has given a lot to the field of study, even if he’s disagreeable and a jerk.

I think you would be VERY surprised if you knew what Wolforth’s guys were doing right now. If you walked in at the right time, you’d think you were at Marshall’s camp.

#15

[quote=“kyleb”]Seanez and Sparks look a lot like a hybridized Marshall guy. Seanez especially does.

And Sparks was nothing before he met Marshall, even by his own admission.

Yeah, the full Marshall body action (and distal sequencing, moreover) limits fastball velocity. I won’t dispute that. But Marshall has given a lot to the field of study, even if he’s disagreeable and a jerk.

I think you would be VERY surprised if you knew what Wolforth’s guys were doing right now. If you walked in at the right time, you’d think you were at Marshall’s camp.[/quote]

I didn’t deny that marshall has contributed to the field of study…I agree that he has. I’m just saying that fully committing to “marshall mechanics” is an awful option for somebody trying to reach their full potential.