Does O'leary's theory on the inverted L have any merit to it


#1

Does O’leary’s theory on the inverted L have any merit to it? I ask this because I do the “inverted L” but my elbow doesn’t go above my shoulder blade like prior, burnett.

does the inverted L really cause shoulder problems or is oleary just picking out 8 names out of a large population and then jumping to conclusions?


#2

It’s true.


#3

What Chris points out as being injurious is simply his theory. He could be right - nobody knows yet. But currently there’s no proof that he is. And, as you point out, he’s basing things on a very small sample size. And, in hte case of Prior, he completely disregards well-documented and more likely causes of Prior’s injuries.


#4

I’ll chime in even though we"ve beat this critter every way you can beat it.
The premise that he throws out there is just wrong. To say that “pitcher x” has come to injury because he’s got “bad” mechs or that he throws with an “obtuse w”, “inverted k”…or other marketing oriented catch phrases is just absurd…on it’s face. Pitchers like Wood or Prior or Carpenter or any of his favorite whipping boys aren’t some dissappointed frustrated high schooler who has met his pitching end in regret. These are men who the guys with the checkbook have put ahead of all others…now think of that…in front of all others. They are a part of the 300…(It’s approximate but there are only 300 or so humans that have the privledge to pitch in the bigs). The arrogence of this man, who didn’t play hs baseball, who only coaches his kids LL and has only done that for a couple of years…to come out and say that because he’s looked at a couple of pictures…HE knows better than the professionals who have dedicated their entire lives to the art and sport…is well…gumption that leaves one breathless.
Now I don’t mind the arguement, nor the discussion. What I do mind is when I see kids like Kevin and Hydejing start fervently believing this faux-theory (It is not based on science or medicine, it’s based on this guy) and pitching to “avoid” throwing with these dumb phrases. It wastes time and mentally is not the method to create a platform of progress.
Real pitching coaches…ones who actually develop and facillitate players moving up and chasing their dreams, do not, I repeat do not teach in a negative “don’t do this or that” way. They take what is presented and facillitate building the greatest efficiencies possible into that pitcher.
They (Those “real” coaches) understand that a pitcher is “made” of many ingrediants, with mechanics being a portion. Injuries arrive from weakness, “freak” and unforseen things like what happened to Prior (Collision with Giles and liner off elbow equal many tripo to DL), poor conditioning (Carlos Zambrano is thought to have had a marginal year last year because he went off of the Cubs conditioning regieme), genetic propensities (Weaken joints or things like the cancer that took Dave Draveky’s arm) are among the zillions of possibilities that can be the lurking cause of injuries. Those injuries will always be there at the pinnacle…you have men throwing a baseball near 100…any misstep, any fatigue that is unaddressed…it can lead to injury. Chris never ever has even studied the medical recordes of his whipping boys…and to date hasn’t predicted one single injury…what he’s done is made a buck on the gullable…it’s easy to see an injured guy and say…ooops “Inverted buffalo” or “upside down marshmellow”…it is quite another to be the people who looked at the mri’s and x-rays, the ones who know the guys medical past. To date I’ve not seen them come out and point to a picture and say;“yep” shouldn’t have been throwing that way".


#5

[quote=“jdfromfla”]I’ll chime in even though we"ve beat this critter every way you can beat it.
The premise that he throws out there is just wrong. To say that “pitcher x” has come to injury because he’s got “bad” mechs or that he throws with an “obtuse w”, “inverted k”…or other marketing oriented catch phrases is just absurd…on it’s face. Pitchers like Wood or Prior or Carpenter or any of his favorite whipping boys aren’t some dissappointed frustrated high schooler who has met his pitching end in regret. These are men who the guys with the checkbook have put ahead of all others…now think of that…in front of all others. They are a part of the 300…(It’s approximate but there are only 300 or so humans that have the privledge to pitch in the bigs). The arrogence of this man, who didn’t play hs baseball, who only coaches his kids LL and has only done that for a couple of years…to come out and say that because he’s looked at a couple of pictures…HE knows better than the professionals who have dedicated their entire lives to the art and sport…is well…gumption that leaves one breathless.
Now I don’t mind the arguement, nor the discussion. What I do mind is when I see kids like Kevin and Hydejing start fervently believing this faux-theory (It is not based on science or medicine, it’s based on this guy) and pitching to “avoid” throwing with these dumb phrases. It wastes time and mentally is not the method to create a platform of progress.
Real pitching coaches…ones who actually develop and facillitate players moving up and chasing their dreams, do not, I repeat do not teach in a negative “don’t do this or that” way. They take what is presented and facillitate building the greatest efficiencies possible into that pitcher.
They (Those “real” coaches) understand that a pitcher is “made” of many ingrediants, with mechanics being a portion. Injuries arrive from weakness, “freak” and unforseen things like what happened to Prior (Collision with Giles and liner off elbow equal many tripo to DL), poor conditioning (Carlos Zambrano is thought to have had a marginal year last year because he went off of the Cubs conditioning regieme), genetic propensities (Weaken joints or things like the cancer that took Dave Draveky’s arm) are among the zillions of possibilities that can be the lurking cause of injuries. Those injuries will always be there at the pinnacle…you have men throwing a baseball near 100…any misstep, any fatigue that is unaddressed…it can lead to injury. Chris never ever has even studied the medical recordes of his whipping boys…and to date hasn’t predicted one single injury…what he’s done is made a buck on the gullable…it’s easy to see an injured guy and say…ooops “Inverted buffalo” or “upside down marshmellow”…it is quite another to be the people who looked at the mri’s and x-rays, the ones who know the guys medical past. To date I’ve not seen them come out and point to a picture and say;“yep” shouldn’t have been throwing that way".[/quote]

I would have tried to say something like this but I would have failed. JD sums it up perfectly.


#6

There is no functional being on this planet that is more complex, volatile, and subject to speculation - than the human body. And a closer inspection of its many components - joints, muscles, skeletal frame, signatures of movement, physical endowments, and numerous levels of endurance and tolerance, only underscores the amazing design and existence of this thing that carries us around.

What’s even more amazing is when the body is asked to perform certain things, things that require thought plus precision, like in athletic competition. So, it’s no wonder that a bumper crop of minds appear on the horizon, each adding their own ray of sunshine to the morning dawn.

Some of these rays do their best to actually illuminate a particular subject, while others do their best to blind all others with their own aurora. So, easy does it goes hand and hand with what’s technically sound and generally accepted by the educated community at that point in time. Adding to that last remark, there are institutions that are highly respected and that make it their prime purpose in life to research such things. The only problem being is that their findings are a bit technical (to say the least) and not well digested by the general public (you and me). So, what do we do … we try to put into words … our own non-technical language… this-n-that. And it’s real easy to literally run with this non-technical stuff and find substance or the lack thereof around every corner.

Also, the major body of people looking for answers on rather complex subjects - like people that visit this web site, I would assume would be average folks trying to do their best to muddle through all the suggestions and comments, ultimately trying to get … “just give me something that I can use.” Unfortunately, some well meaning “folks” do a copy and paste of a near doctoral thesis at one end of the spectrum, with a “well, I think”, at the other end. Somewhere in between is just what your looking for … the trick is to find it.

I will give credit where credit is do ---- I’ve read over some of works of Chris, KC, La, JD, Roger, DM and others and there’s lots sincere work to learn from. The nice thing about variety, is that if the reader(s) are truly looking for an education – education has many stops along the way. Visit, take what you will, then go knocking on another door and ask again. Just remember to THINK too.

Coach B.


#7

I looked at one of those inverted L things and I’ll tell you what I ran through my mechanics dry and this L thing that is presented hurts more with just the L than the inverted L, while both put unnecessary stress on my arm I don’t think that this inverted L nonsense has any credibility.

The way our individual bodies are built is too diverse to say one set of mechanics is “better” than another. Sure there are some universal rules but nobody’s mechanics look exactly alike just like no two knuckleballs look exactly alike.

I remember my time wasted on this O’Leary nonsense he thought everything revolved around arm action and that there was no correlation to anything else.


#8

As long as you get your arm up in the high cock position no later than “at footstrike” inverted L isn’t a problem.

What you don’t want is any kind of tense muscles during the arm action, if your arm action has muscles tense they get stiff and you can strain them. Once you get the muscles injured or weak the tendon is at a higher risk.

If you are late at footstrike there is more stress added to your muscles to stay under control and catch up. This wears them out faster and puts your tendons at risk.

Stay loose, relaxed and on time.


#9

Inverted L = jackalope

believe it if you want to :wink:


#10

[quote=“jdfromfla”]I’ll chime in even though we"ve beat this critter every way you can beat it.
The premise that he throws out there is just wrong. To say that “pitcher x” has come to injury because he’s got “bad” mechs or that he throws with an “obtuse w”, “inverted k”…or other marketing oriented catch phrases is just absurd…on it’s face. Pitchers like Wood or Prior or Carpenter or any of his favorite whipping boys aren’t some dissappointed frustrated high schooler who has met his pitching end in regret. These are men who the guys with the checkbook have put ahead of all others…now think of that…in front of all others. They are a part of the 300…(It’s approximate but there are only 300 or so humans that have the privledge to pitch in the bigs). The arrogence of this man, who didn’t play hs baseball, who only coaches his kids LL and has only done that for a couple of years…to come out and say that because he’s looked at a couple of pictures…HE knows better than the professionals who have dedicated their entire lives to the art and sport…is well…gumption that leaves one breathless.
Now I don’t mind the arguement, nor the discussion. What I do mind is when I see kids like Kevin and Hydejing start fervently believing this faux-theory (It is not based on science or medicine, it’s based on this guy) and pitching to “avoid” throwing with these dumb phrases. It wastes time and mentally is not the method to create a platform of progress.
Real pitching coaches…ones who actually develop and facillitate players moving up and chasing their dreams, do not, I repeat do not teach in a negative “don’t do this or that” way. They take what is presented and facillitate building the greatest efficiencies possible into that pitcher.
They (Those “real” coaches) understand that a pitcher is “made” of many ingrediants, with mechanics being a portion. Injuries arrive from weakness, “freak” and unforseen things like what happened to Prior (Collision with Giles and liner off elbow equal many tripo to DL), poor conditioning (Carlos Zambrano is thought to have had a marginal year last year because he went off of the Cubs conditioning regieme), genetic propensities (Weaken joints or things like the cancer that took Dave Draveky’s arm) are among the zillions of possibilities that can be the lurking cause of injuries. Those injuries will always be there at the pinnacle…you have men throwing a baseball near 100…any misstep, any fatigue that is unaddressed…it can lead to injury. Chris never ever has even studied the medical recordes of his whipping boys…and to date hasn’t predicted one single injury…what he’s done is made a buck on the gullable…it’s easy to see an injured guy and say…ooops “Inverted buffalo” or “upside down marshmellow”…it is quite another to be the people who looked at the mri’s and x-rays, the ones who know the guys medical past. To date I’ve not seen them come out and point to a picture and say;“yep” shouldn’t have been throwing that way".[/quote]

haven’t been here in a while, but after watching stras come up lame again last nite i just wanted to search on this topic as i knew i could find a good JD - O’Leary discussion to cheer me up. JD, don’t give up…I’m with ya bro, and always love your posts!


#11

Hyde, used SS’s flexer to point out once again…the blah blah blah of non-science…inverted bad…see? :roll: (Anybody remember the last flexer/pitcher issue in the bigs???) Well one thing is certain…the hysteria has effected poor Jim Riggleman…I bet ownership sends some “guys” over to Jim’s house everytime Strasburg farts funny…likely beats his dog or cat or holds the wife hostage for a couple of weeks…
Strasburg didn’t even want to leave the mound…the Nats are just being ultra cautious. Really who could blame them. They have no chance this year, Harper will be coming up and why not try to build healthy and smart. Oh well Hyde and Bert and Chris can all have a high five fest over the “tweak” and say it’s all true…who knows…someone might even pay Chris for analysis (Though it is a particularly sick thing to celebrate a guys misfortune as “proof” of an observation…again it’s not even a theory…you see on a “theory” you experiment to “prove”…an obsevation…without controls, has no basis in science).
Terp really glad to see you back :smiley:


#12

I was reading chris o’learys website and i thought…if so many great pitchers do this inverted L or inverted W or inverted V…it must not be that bad for you.
Because wouldnt there pitching coaches see this flaw in there mechanics?
And if they did see this flaw…and it is “bad” to do…they would change it,wouldnt they?!


#13

Careful Power…your being logical…logic ain’t the deal…
One would think that making bajillions and “making” the bigs would be a marker of success. The problem is that the media makes it look like this thing (Pitching in MLB) is something easily attained…IT AIN"T!!! A kid has to wade through a million miles of shear heck and adversity to get there…You better have superior mechs or you will never…never…no daggone way, make it that far. 90+ mph donkeys are a dime a dozen…they go through them by the dozens every single year…and they don’t even make the bigs…I just refuse to allow this crap to go unchallenged…it is absurd…if your mechanics aren’t good you’ll never make it through the the crucible, you will break down in the journey. If you over-come and make the show…your stuff is good…no it’s great, your command, your mechanics, your game…is beyond compare to ANYTHING or ANYONE outside of the show…it isn’t even close. The rarity demands the dollars…and in the majors…they pay it.


#14

yah thats what i was sayin JD.
If there was something wrong with the pitchers mecjanics they would fix it right?
But theres nothing to fix…


#15

There are much worse “mechanical flaws” to worry about then the inverted whatever.