Dishonesty or Ignorance or BOTH?

Pitching Mechanics
#1

This posting is a continuation of a previous “exchange” between Yardbird, myself and others (if you have the time and patience please see Yardbird
http://letstalkpitching.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17463&start=12
). I’m starting a new posting because it’s too easy to get lost in Yardbirds verbose replies but for full disclosure I would urge you to read his postings. That being said …

Every once in a while will need a reality your sanity check, yours truly included. My reality check was initiated by a series of posts in the aforementioned thread. Key points in my reality check are:

  1. When it comes to the goodness or badness of pitching instruction the ultimate question that gets asked and the question that has the most weight in terms of influencing the uninformed parent or coach regarding and instructors knowledge of how the body throws the baseball is;

“how many players have you sent to the major leagues?”.

  1. I have been under the belief that Jeff Sparks was the only Mike Marshall trained pitcher to ever make it to the major leagues. Also I was not aware of any high-level draft choices trained by Mike Marshall.

  1. For longest time, because of the nature and format of his posts, I was under the impression that Yardbirds was Mike Marshall. It is only very recently that I found out that Yardbirds actually Lon Fullmer who according to Mike Marshall website is a certified Mike Marshall instructor.

  2. Turn 22 asking the question:

[quote]Yardbird,
I’m curious. Could you produce some of “your” guys who are pitching pro ball? I would like to look at their mechanics.[/quote]

  1. Kyleb and responding with:

  1. Doing an Internet search to find out that Tyler Matzek was a first-round draft choice of the Colorado Rockies.

  2. How can this be, i.e. a pitcher with Mike Marshall mechanics being drafted in the first round…???

To be continued…

#2

I put this link up on BBFev last night…in a sort of related thread;

I think it is a fuller more complete look at the Marshall side of the table, from his own perspective…

I found it helpful.

#3

To be continued… Really? :?

Got to see the rest of the post, I have a feeling its going to be a good one.

#4

jdfromfla,

Contrary to what one might think I did not start this thread to criticize Dr. Mike Marshall.

I am critical Marshall because he thinks he knows something about physics and he doesn’t. He really has no understanding of the biomechanics of throwing a baseball. So therefore when the butt heads.

Believe it or not of all the “name” pitching instructors out there I have the highest regards for Dr. Marshall.

Why?

Because I think Marshall has made a significant and real contribution to the world of pitching instruction and understanding what it takes to throw baseball. SpecificallyI think from a training/conditioning perspective Dr. Marshall has demonstrated that the human body in particular the arm is not the fragile appendage that the doctors (Andrews, ASMI) would like us to believe (Marshall is use of verse weights, throwing iron and steel balls, etc., etc.). this along with his rigorous throwing program i.e. throwing every day with a large number of throws each day.

I also respect Marshall and that he truly believes in his program and refuses to knuckle under to prostituting his beliefs for the sake of marketing like most of the “name” gurus who keep coming up with “new discoveries” when in reality they never got it right to begin with.

When I get a chance I will finish this thread at least my commentary to this thread which will explain why I started it.

#5

I’m all good here, just trying to throw out a piece which may lead to a better understanding of the players…I always find if you know who you are dealing with that it is much easier to communicate.

#6
#7

… Yardbirds otherwise known as Lon Fullmer.

Why is he both dishonest and ignorant at least when it comes to throwing mechanics?

I put together a clip that at least to me indicates that Fullmer, in spite of his million word essays, really has no clue with respect to what he’s talking about.

On the left we have Tyler Matzek from a high school showcase and on the right we have Video from the ASMI of one of Marshall’s signature pitching deliveries.

The clips are synchronized to releasing the ball.

From my perspective i.e. what I am capable of seeing, Matzek in no way shape or form resembles Marshalls throwing mechanics.

Which to me says that:

  1. Lon Fullmer/alias Yardbirds/alias certified Mike Marshall pitching instructor, cannot or does not know how to teach Mike Marshall mechanics.

  2. And if he did Matzek would never have been drafted in the first round.

  3. And based on 1 and 2 above, Fullmer/alias Yardbirds is both dishonest and ignorant with respect to how the body throws the baseball.

Enough said.

#8

Yardbird
Can you describe how many and specifically which of Marshall’s tenets Matzek uses? Thanks.

#9

[quote=“coachxj”]
Because I think Marshall has made a significant and real contribution to the world of pitching instruction and understanding what it takes to throw baseball. SpecificallyI think from a training/conditioning perspective Dr. Marshall has demonstrated that the human body in particular the arm is not the fragile appendage that the doctors (Andrews, ASMI) would like us to believe (Marshall is use of verse weights, throwing iron and steel balls, etc., etc.). this along with his rigorous throwing program i.e. throwing every day with a large number of throws each day.[/quote]

This is more or less exactly how I view him. And in that lens, he has done a great service.

#10

It is to laugh.
I remember one day when Eddie Lopat and I were talking, in what would be our last curbstone consultation (or so I thought), and we got to talking about mechanics—or the lack of same. He was demonstrating different pitchers, different mechanics, good, bad and indifferent, and he started in on one pitcher who had absolutely no idea of what he was doing. I burst out laughing and said, “That guy must have learned to pitch in a bathtub!” And we both cracked up as we explored the mechanics, or absence of same, of a pitcher who evidently had learned (?) to pitch in a bathtub.
Video on the right. I’m still laughing. :lol: :lol: :lol:

#11

Zita can’t see the video :oops:

#12

Sorry but can’t see the Marshall mechanics at all. He does pronate the pitch, but so does my 16 year old HS sophomore son. Natural pronation.