Dick mills kicked me out

[quote=“Eric Cressey”]My assistant pointed me to this thread after he got a notification of my name via Google alerts. Couldn’t resist…

Simple, yet easy way to handle this is to go to the research.


Derenne C, Ho KW, Murphy JC. Effects of general, special, and specific resistance training on throwing velocity in baseball: a brief review. J Strength Cond Res. 2001 Feb;15(1):148-56.

[quote]Practical Applications

Throwing velocity can be increased by resistance training. A rationale for general, special, and specific resistance training to increase throwing velocity has been presented. The following findings and recommendations relevant to strength and conditioning specialists and pitching coaches can be useful from the review of literature.

-Throwing velocity for high school and college players can be increased with general resistance training. The throwing-training protocol should be conducted over a minimum training period of 8 weeks using upper-body core exercises and a dumbbell shoulder routine.

-As the baseball player’s general muscular strength and throwing velocity adequately increases during the off-season, he should proceed into a special upper-body power throwing velocity training program. The power-training protocol should consist of “exploding” lightweight loads of 30–50% of 1RM during the 6–8 training weeks.

-Specific resistance training consisting of light- and heavyweighted baseballs may be the single best method to increasing throwing velocity, provided the athlete follows the appropriate training protocol. Before a weighted implement training program commences, an athlete should participate in a general total-body isotonic resistance program followed by an upper-body power-training regimen.

-In order to produce the maximum training results, selection of appropriate throwing training exercises must be based on the athlete’s chronological age, training experience, and skill level.[/quote]

Specific studies they referenced:

Bagonzi, J.A. The effects of graded weighted baseballs, free weight training, and simulative isometric exercise on the velocity of a thrown baseball. Master’s thesis, Indiana University. 1978.

Brose, D.E., and D.L. Hanson. Effects of overload training on velocity and accuracy of throwing. Res. Q. 38:528–533. 1967.

Jackson, J.B. The effects of weight training on the velocity of a thrown baseball. Master’s thesis, Central Michigan University,. 1994.

Lachowetz, T., J. Evon, and J. Pastiglione. The effects of an upper-body strength program on intercollegiate baseball throwing velocity. J. Strength Cond. Res. 12:116–119. 1998.

Logan, G.A., W.C. McKinney, and W. Rowe. Effect of resistance through a throwing range of motion on the velocity of a baseball. Percept. Motor Skills. 25:55–58. 1966.

Newton, R.U., and K.P. McEvoy. Baseball throwing velocity: A comparison of medicine ball training and weight training. J. Strength Cond. Res. 8:198–203. 1994.

Potteiger, J.A., H.N. Williford, D.L. Blessing, and J. Smidt. Effect of two training methods on improving baseball performance variables. J. Appl. Sport Sci. Res. 6:2–6. 1992.

Sullivan, J.W. The effects of three experimental training factors upon baseball throwing velocity and selected strength measures. Doctoral dissertation, Indiana University,. 1970.

Swangard, T.M. The effect of isotonic weight training programs on the development of bat swinging, throwing, and running ability of college baseball players. Master’s thesis, University of Oregon,. 1965.

Thompson, C.W., and E.T. Martin. Weight training and baseball throwing speed. J. Assoc. Phys. Mental Rehabil. 19:194–196. 1965.

They also have a table that summarizes 26 studies that examined the effect of different strength protocols on throwing velocity, and 22 of the 26 showed increases over controls who just threw.

The saddest part is that the training programs they outlined were crap - lots of 3x10 with light dumbbells and therabands. If archaic stuff like this works, just imagine what good S&C can do.[/quote]

Thanks for taking time to point that out, Eric. Lots of sports still have their training stuck in the stone age due to empirical style reasoning, with baseball among them (ie. Nolan Ryan didnt lift weights). But most people fail to realize that they arent Nolan Ryan. Strength and conditioning can be a huge advantage for the rest of us mere mortals to level the playing field with the genetic freaks.

Dick Mills always mentioned how his son was a first round draft pick so i looked him up and he was a total washup look at his stats

outstanding citation of articles and Dissertation dealing directly with the question of how to best develop safe velocity.

i have modified my position slightly in the last 6 months but not that much. i still believe you must get the weight going quickly from back to front foot to arm, but i think the critical factor is the speed that is generated after the throwing hand breaks the glove. i think that is when the magic begins to happen and culminates when the throwing arm goes from maximal external rotation to internal rotation (however you want to argue that external to internal rotation occurs).

thanks for the references. i will definitely get copies and look these up. some great stuff there.

"…each subsequent link in the kinetic chain reaches a higher velocity than the previous link. So, the shoulders reach a higher velocity than the hips, and the hand reaches a higher velocity than the shoulders. How could this be if no additional energy was being added along the way?

Of course, if there is muscular contribution throughout the delivery, then it stands to reason that proper strength and flexibility are needed to maximize velocity."

------Very well put, Roger. That was an extremely refreshing account of some outstanding research. I have seen the same detailed research that you cited and cannot really add anything to your excellent summary.

It is quite interesting to me that many elite golfers, especially those associated with the Titleist Performance Institute, understand, accept, and use the research results you are talking about very quickly. There’s always been a bit more of the good ol’ blarney & bluster in baseball–although lots of fun, I’m sure, it can sometimes get in the way of serious learning.

[quote=“futureKazmir”]Dick Mills always mentioned how his son was a first round draft pick so i looked him up and he was a total washup look at his stats

still, he made it to AAA, that’s a pretty huge accomplishment. You think you could do that?

yes he did make it to AAA but he didn’t go there with AAA numbers, I don’t think i could do it now but hey I still got time to throw 100 mph :smiley:

I don’t like mills. I hate how he claims that hip/shoulder separation is a myth. If i had a stride of 6-1, i might throw hard, but i would have controll problems. A much better way is to have 90 degrees of separation (I have about 80).

I doubt you have about 80 degrees of h/s separation.

If you’re 6ft tall then stepping 6-1 isn’t difficult at all

Guys. Regardless of where Ryan Mills ended up, he got a huge signing bonus, 6 figures, I believe. I’d say he had something goin’ on there. I certainly hope each of you can get that good. He injured his shoulder and that pretty much did him in. Now, before you blame that on his father, just think about how many shoulder injuries there are in pitchers. Schilling’s having issues now. Actually, Ryan Mills didn’t have his problems until after he left home and was in the hands of college coaches. Would you say his injury problems are because of them? Who knows.

My point is that we can’t condemn a particular coach just because someone had a shoulder injury. They’re too common. Nasty, risky motion, this pitching stuff.

dm59, arent you dick mills?

It’s between 70 and 80 degrees. I’m 6-1, and for me, i like to throw downhill. I have a stride of about 5-8 to 5-10.

[quote=“tdbaseball”]dm59, arent you dick mills?[/quote] :rolllaugh: Do you really think so? I guess I do have the same intials.

DM cannot get that harsh…he’s tried…but ultimately the fact that he’s a good guy betrays him.
As to Mills son…that is what they call a red herring…Name me a pitching coach who’s son is an exceptional pitcher. Not many mlb pitchers son’s can you name as opposed to mlb position players…i.e. Griffy, Matthews Jr, Boone bros etc. for some reason it just doesn’t translate…Heck remember 2 or 3 years ago when Dante Bischett’s son was trying to reach the LLWS as a pitcher? His old man said he wasn’t going to let him pitch after that. I think position players think you got to be somewhat nuts to pitch.

[quote=“jdfromfla”]DM cannot get that harsh…he’s tried…but ultimately the fact that he’s a good guy betrays him.[/quote] :oops: Thanks jd. I guess he just hasn’t read enough of my posts.

Gee, and all this time I thought dm59 was Dick Marshall. :wiseguy:

sorry just wondering, because if somebody was ripping on me and my family like that i would say something.

Did you really think I was Mills?

im so confused haha

See I dont know much about Mills but it sounds like he’s just promotiong strong mechanics and to throw more. If thats what he’s promoting more power to him. The idea of explosive mechanics always sounded weird to me. And I think it can be bad if explained inproperly. When you say explosive I feel like just going out that are blindly throw as hard as i possibly cab xD. Another thing that always seemed weird to me was the fact that Yes a lot of pitchers get velo by using explosive mechanics but you also see many major league pitches with very calm control mechanics and theyre still throwing 91-95 easy. So im always confused on which to go with… so i just basically go with what my natural feel is instead haha

At the risk of being thought of as Dick Mills :wink: I’ll try to boil his stuff down as much as possible. He and Dr. Brent Rushall collaborated on a book that claims, as its basic premise, that they have surveyed (actually Rushall did the surveying) all of the “credible” or “valid” science that’s out there about pitching and have drawn conclusions from those only. They actually discredit many, or most, of the studies that baseball has historically thought of as science. This has led them to what they say is the only method that acknowledges the science. As a result, they say that the momentum generated in the stride is the key element. Everything else is a passing on of that momentum up the kinetic chain to the relatively small ball, thus accelerating it. That’s it. That’s the premise. Now, what to do about it.

So, Mills came up with Momentum Pitching. His new mechanics model is crafted to allow for the most momentum generation during the stride as is possible, under control. Straight to the target with a minimum of “extraneous” motion. Do this, break the hands late and “slam the trap door shut” with the upper body, ending in a flat back finish.

Explosive Pitching came out a bit before MP and is really just his way of saying to move sideways really fast toward landing, particularly from the stretch.