College Coach told me I don't throw hard enough

I have a career ERA of below 2 in one of the tougher areas in California. I top out about 82 but I have great control with 17 walks in two full seasons. Local Junior College coach was interested in watching me play, called my coach and coach gave him the run down. My coach hung up on the guy because he was full of it, telling my coach that his staff has guys that throw 90+, yet his team is 4-10 in league this year. Anyone have experience with a coach that will not take a look at you, simply because you don’t throw hard enough? I play legion baseball, and have performed at high levels before, so I don’t see a problem with taking a kid who would top out at 85 by the end of his redshirt year. Makes no sense. :roll:

Velocity doesn’t automatically translate into wins as far as your comment about having guys on his team that throw 90+ and yet they are 4-10 to start the season. Perfect example I know a program that had guys on their staff that threw 90+ and yet they went a grand total of 7-43 one year.

Are you RHP or LHP?

Are you a Senior in HS?

How do you figure that you are going to redshirt?

JUCO ball is tough to crack and getting tougher especially in Cali, guys who are very good ball player who don’t quite have the academics go that route or guys who got drafted but opted not to sign for whatever reason usually because they felt they were drafted too low go that way to play a year get better and get drafted higher.

Also HS stats and legion ball stats don’t mean a thing to College Coaches, they are more concerned with what you have to offer against the teams and conference they play in.

And finally unfortunately what you’re going through with this Coach about him not looking at you because you don’t throw hard enough happens everyday everywhere.

My advice is cut your losses and start looking for another place to go to school and play baseball. Once a Coach writes you off it is very hard to get him to change his mind unless you start throwing high 8s or more.

Exactly, I am pretty reasonable with my expectations with myself. I know I don’t throw 90+, but I feel I can contribute something to the team even though I only top out at low 80’s. Juco Baseball in California is indeed tough, luckily their are tons of places to play so I can almost always have somewhere to look for. Just a bit disappointed that’s all. I am a 6’3 Right Handed Senior. I expect to redshirt because the majority of players at my level do, with the exception at the lower level juco programs. For example, the school I am probably going to head to carries 55 players, 35 on their active roster and 20 redshirt. Their redshirt guys are throwing 84-89, while their non redshirt guys are 87-90+. With a good workout program and some mechanical changes I can see myself hitting 85 within the next year, but most importantly I want to keep my control.

On the note of the 4-10 league stat, the way I see it is if a team has guys that throw 90, they are most likely in the top half of their conference in terms of velocity, and you’d expect to see some success. But you’re right, it doesn’t always translate to wins or losses in any direct form. Same with stats, coaches do look at stats, but they don’t base it off whether you will make their team or not. I am looking forward to the summer to get stronger and find my school to play at. Right now I am 3-1 with 1.45 ERA, and 31 K’s and 5 Walks in 24 innings. So confidence wise the coach took a bit off my ego, LOL. In all seriousness, I just want to make a Junior College Team and contribute to their program whether it be as a spot starter, reliever, anything.

Thanks for the response.

That statement is absolutely true, but its astounding at how many people don’t understand why its true. What’s even more astounding, is the number of people who know its true, but refuse to act in any way that’s in opposition to it. It’s a matter of the dots not getting connected.

Why is it that velocity holds such a high regard? That’s pretty easy to answer. From the 1st efforts at kid pitch, there will always be some percentage of hitters that will not be able to deal with balls thrown at certain velocities. For whatever the reason, they just don’t have the hand-2-eye coordination that allows them to succeed. In general, that leads to team success, because especially at the lower levels, the fewer balls hit, the fewer errors, and the fewer errors, the fewer runs.

That’s a paradigm that holds true all the way to the very top, but during the course of that journey, things change. More and more of the “marginal” players disappear, and more and more of those left discover that the easiest pitch to hit is the one with the least movement. That’s what makes the component of movement and the changing of speeds so important. And, the higher the velocity of the FB, the less time the hitter has to make decisions about any pitch, especially one of a different velocity, a different movement, or both.

What confuses so many is, they see the very best pitchers have great velocity, and leap to the conclusion that it’s the velocity alone that makes them succeed. To add to the confusion, as much as folks like to lavish praise on scouts for their unerring ability to choose those who will succeed at the next level, while they’re good at it, they’re far from perfect, and thus fall back on the one thing that will always cover their a$$. Velocity.

Part of that is, other than some number on a gun, without using past stats because they’re not trusted, there’s absolutely no other objective number to use to make decisions. Thus it becomes very easy to say if a pitcher can’t hit “X” on the gun, we’re not going to even consider him.

It’s a shame, but that’s the way its done.

[quote=“JohnBuchman”]For example, the school I am probably going to head to carries 55 players, 35 on their active roster and 20 redshirt. Their redshirt guys are throwing 84-89, while their non redshirt guys are 87-90+.
[/quote]

Not sure what school you’re talking about, but thats definitely not a Juco, and its also very hard to believe. I played college baseball down south the last 2 spring trainings and i’ve seen first hand how hyped up pitchers get regarding their velocity. I’d say about 75% of the guys i’ve played against that were supposed to throw 90mph+, ended up topping out at high 80’s.

Also, don’t worry about your velocity, you’re young. ESPN magazine did a article on Oakland Athletics pitcher Brandon Mccarthy, he said he topped out at 82 his senior year in highschool, but he threw strikes. His next year at college after going through a training regiment and a throwing program, he threw 87. Got drafted that year and look where he is now! Keep your head up and **** that coach.

That is one helluva HUGE roster for a JUCO.

Those numbers seem to be more in line with a DIII school or a school that carries a JV squad.

If you’ve already got a school lined up then why worry about what this HC has to say?

That JUCO wouldn’t be Sac City would it? Sounds much like what they’ve done for the last 15 years. Of course they’ve got a larger student body than most full time colleges in the country. The last time I checked was in the fall of 2002, and the school had 24,596 (full-time equivalent) students. Cosumnes River had 13,000 then, and from what I can tell, ARC has over 37,000 students. That’s just 3 of the JUCOs here in Sacramento. Numbers like that make it just a wee bit difficult for some to make the team.

It’s not about what you do at the level you are at. It’s about what you can do at the many levels above you.

There’s a lot of guys getting people out at AA-AAA ball who will only see limited innings in the show, because they don’t project to succeed at the highest levels. And they usually don’t, though there are some exceptions.

How much better would you be if you DID throw 88 or higher? That’s their point.

The Local Junior Colleges all carry upwards of 50 guys. The Head Coach of the mentioned school said they carry 35 and were looking to take 5 High School pitchers. Now how many of those redshirt guys ever see time or make it on the field? Who knows. I had the choice of three different schools all in the greater San Francisco Bay Area, one being City College of San Francisco which I could end up at.

I understand the coach completely, obviously low 80’s might not fair well in a competitive junior college level, but with some strength and conditioning, I don’t see why he wouldn’t take a chance. Anyways, time to move on, have a game tomorrow morning. Going to keep doing what I have been doing and see what comes along. Thanks for all the feedback.

Don’t get me wrong: The coach may indeed be wrong. But sadly, that’s not the argument.

For example:
College of San Francisco carries 47 guys on their roster(I find CCSF to be the easiest and least competitive, nothing against the guys that play there, but the talent level is a bit low. Best chance to play and make the team).

Canada College carries 34 players on their roster, and I was made aware that 14 others are redshirting. Canada is also fairly difficult to make a roster, my most ideal choice because of location. I know some guys that were redshirting this season and they are clocked anywhere from 79-85.

Skyline carries 29 guys. Right there with CCSF in terms of talent level. Another possible destination. They are really struggling right now. 4-13 in league last time I checked.

and finally,

College of San Mateo carries 35 guys on their main roster. The most competitive, you really need to be throwing 85+ and strikes to make this team. They recruit the entire west coast and are well known for moving guys onto the next level.

Where would you go?

If your desire is to play JC ball for two years and hang up the spikes then I would probably go to the winnest program I could. If your desire is get a shot beyond the JC then I would go to the place I would have the best chance of playing. Im no expert but I would think trying to move on from a JC to a 4 year school would be tough if you have barely seen the field. It could be a little different if you have a funky delivery or a pitch that is different as a pitcher might get a shot as a “specialist” out of the pen. Either way if your desire is to move on beyond high school I think the biggest factor will be your work ethic. Going to the gym and doing a 30 minute circuit on machines shouldnt count as working out. Also, dont let the opinions of a single coach or teammate or whoever discourage you. I would hear what everyone says, both positive and negative, as we dont always know where our lessons are going to come from. But, they are offering only opinions. The biggest determinant in whether you get to play will be you. Good luck.

Because they are not being paid to take a chance they are being paid to get results on the field now and not later.

You can throw low 80s and carve up college hitters. I’ve seen it happen in D1 numerous times. I’ve also seen guys who throw 90-96 get their titts lit.

John,

I sent you a Private Message, please take a look at it and get back to me as soon as you get a chance. Since I know you and your capabilities from personal experience I’d like to help, if possible.

laflippin

[quote=“JohnBuchman”]For example:
College of San Francisco carries 47 guys on their roster(I find CCSF to be the easiest and least competitive, nothing against the guys that play there, but the talent level is a bit low. Best chance to play and make the team).

Canada College carries 34 players on their roster, and I was made aware that 14 others are redshirting. Canada is also fairly difficult to make a roster, my most ideal choice because of location. I know some guys that were redshirting this season and they are clocked anywhere from 79-85.

Skyline carries 29 guys. Right there with CCSF in terms of talent level. Another possible destination. They are really struggling right now. 4-13 in league last time I checked.

and finally,

College of San Mateo carries 35 guys on their main roster. The most competitive, you really need to be throwing 85+ and strikes to make this team. They recruit the entire west coast and are well known for moving guys onto the next level.

Where would you go?[/quote]

My nephew plays for San Manteo…lefty pitcher from Chicago…

im a freshman at a norcal JC and top at 82. my team has only two guys who can break 85 and we are ranked in the top 20 in norcal. we have a gun on every pitcher we face and the majority are 80-85. some schools like san mateo have a lot of guys over 85 but this is fairly rare. you should have no problem finding a school. with luck youll play the coach who told you you dont throw hard enough and shove it up his a$$ off the mound . :smiley:

What juco are you at if you don’t mind me asking? My head coach says I should have no problem finding a place to play, but where is the question? Either way, I’m really looking forward to the summer when I can get into a program and gain some muscle, get stronger, and work on my mechanics to add another mile or two. Good luck the rest of the way man.

thanks! i will send you a pm