Class of 2016 pitching video ... coach comments welcome


I want to thank those who have tried to “soften” my message. And I am happy to see those who did chime in do have an appreciation for what I’m trying to say or convey.

Over the years I’ve seen hundreds may be at thousands of parents and players who profess that they want to improve their abilities to throw the baseball or their sons abilities to throw the baseball. The number one obstacle to achieving this is their preconceptions as to what is good or bad.

What you describe your has nothing to do with style.

mcloven was quite correct in his assessment.

Each delivery is a complete movement “system”.

All parts of the body a working harmoniously together. There are infinite number ways for this to happen. But far fewer ways that achieve optimum performance. To the “uneducated eye” Wagner’s movement system isn’t going to look like Cueto’s movement system but if you can “see” the fundamentals i.e. momentum transfer is very little difference between them.

It’s interesting that you say you don’t like Stroman.

He would be one of the players that your son should be emulating. Very clean mechanics. Not sure what you have against upright?

Your son is rushing because his upper body moves way past the point that it should before he releases the baseball. And therefore he must continue going toward home plate otherwise his arm would never get to where it needs to be to release the baseball and have a chance of getting a home plate with any kind of accuracy. This is what I call rushing.

He also has less than optimal segmentation i.e. the sequence of hip to upper torso sequencing.

As pointed out by others this could very well be exaggerated because of the mound that his pitching off of. The best video is game video i.e. how the player throws under game conditions…

I will repeat again that so many of you come here professing to want to get better (discover the “truth” of throwing a baseball effectively) but will never do so because of your preconceived perceptions of what constitutes good and bad.

Enough said.


Statements such as:

Drive me completely insane. On the one hand you are willing to say that these pitchers are really effective. On the other hand you present yourself expert enough to know that these are non-desirable aspects in the delivery.

Let’s get down to some more reality checking. At your son’s age 16 years and with his apparent experience for his size he should be so consistently throwing minimum 80+ mph with very good control or average consistently 85+ mph. And I’m not talking about one time readings where the moon was full and the temperature was 87° with 5% relative humidity.

If your son is doing this then the video that you’ve posted is not representative of how he throws the baseball.

There’s no doubt that improving physical capabilities (strength, muscle mass, etc.) will improve velocity. But the problem that every pitcher faces is that the amount of power that must be developed to throw baseball varies as the velocity squared.

Throwing a baseball is a combination of two physical principles.

  1. Generation of force on an object.

  2. Transfer momentum to an object.

If we take number one i.e. generation force on an object the rate of force development (RFD) becomes critical i.e. how quickly you can generate maximum force on an object (baseball). The problem that occurs when trying to throw baseball using RFD can be illustrated as follows.

Let’s assign a value to the amount of energy required to get a baseball from 0 to 80 mph as 100%. It’s to then get the baseball from 80 to 100 mph then requires an additional 56% of power. In other words it’s very easy to get to 80 mph (relatively speaking) it becomes exponentially (as the square of the velocity ) to get to 100 mph. This is the same phenomena that potentially limits how fast the human body to throw baseball.

Believe it or not it is theoretically possible (can be demonstrated through the principle of compound pendulum momentum transfer) to throw 100 mph and developing zero active movement of the muscles in the arm (muscle simply act as cables that constrain and then release at optimum points in time). This principle is hugely dependent upon proper sequencing of the rotational components of the hips to upper torso. And then the synchronization of the arm action to the whipping action of momentum transfer.

And then if you really want to make things difficult you then have to deal with how the body acquires movement skills. And that’s a whole another subject for a rainy day.

As usual my not so humble opinions…


In my mind, as a father, it is of primary importance that in your quest to improve your sons mechanics (by that I mean his efficiency)…that you understand that nature of EXPONENTIAL growth.

As you attempt to progress you will meet with headwinds that grow exponentially. Meaning, ever increasing effort must be invested but not linearly. For example, not 1,2,3,4,5, etc. but 2,4,8,16,32,etc. If you understand the concept of compound interest or the world population growth…this really is a similar process. I’m not talking as a math guru here. Just seems to be a right analogy to me. What it boils down to is knowing how good is good enough.

Take in every bit of advice provided by all the well meaning folks here and other places. Chew on them for quite a while before putting anything in action. Try not to make your son into a pitching mechanics guinea pig. Someone said famously, “first do no harm.” I believe it’s applicable here.

But I’ll also say, I made some real bozo mistakes with my son and he still turned out fine. He never threw 90 mph and he probably could have but looking back now…big whoop!


[quote]Enough said[/quote].

Apparently not.

Not sure what compels you to continue on your diatrade. Perhaps your motivation is simply to prove your worth to other coaches on this board than helping out.



Here’s a great article by Coach XJ (Paul Nyman) that might help sort through some of the stuff re efficient/effective mechanics in even more detail:

Also, here is how Stroman uses his lower half:


Ok guys I have been on here since 2007 when when my son was 11 he now pitches at a D1 Juco in Kansas. I was weaned on the information Coachxj had on this site and some of the best information to date on throwing the baseball Rotational throwing for numbies. He doesn’t pull any punches says it like it is. The thing is sometimes that is what we need, I have been hammered by him myself. Put your ego/pride a side and read what he is saying. It is good to see him back evolved with LTP. He has forgotten more then we will learn.