Cheaters/Steroids Huh?

In the last thread about which pitchers we all liked to watch, I brought out the name of Gaylord Perry. I don’t have his entire resume’ (Pitched for at least the Giants, Rangers, the Tribe, Yanks etc. member of the 3000 k Club) but I know he was voted into the Hall of Fame. Now in light of the fact that Gaylord was “Celebrated” as the best spitballer ever, how can we reconcile what they are doing to Barry Bonds? I say this for a couple of reasons which will follow but I’d really like the opinions of the folks that browse this site, it bugs me.
First let me state that I am a Cub fan and have no particular love for Bonds…That said, the press has condemed this man, who has never failed urinalysis set forth by the league (Random to ridiculousness) and never admitted to ever taking illegal substances. He has, over his career gotten bigger, but with the scrutiny that is heaped upon him, he has not “deflated” like for example Sammy Sosa “deflated” (Looked like Sammy dropped 40+ lbs, which to me was evidence he was juicing and quit…NOT FACT but my speculation), my point is that with all the tests Bonds has maintained his size.
Now my question is this guy being lynched? Why, if we can induct the greatest pitching cheater (Admitted or not), how can Bonds not be considered as the greatest Home Run hitter in history…WITHOUT an asteric?

Some great points there my friend. I agree, I don’t particularly like Barry Bonds as a person but as a player he has brought so much to this game its unbelievable.
I don’t think that he has been using steroids. The media just needs someone to pick on and that was him.
I mean, media exaggerates everything. In Japan, the guy who hit the most home runs (more than the American record) is not allowed to be voted into the hall of fame because he is hald chinese half japanese.
To me that is as stupid as the whole Barry Bonds ordeal.

Um…your speculation about Sadaharu Oh is not correct. After hitting 868 homeruns in his career, he was inducted into the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame in 1994.

And furthermore, the Barry Bonds issue. He used steroids. I am sorry but you dont gain 50+ pounds of muscle mass, not to mention having your head grow a few sizes.

Bonds in 1990:

Bonds Today:

Now, you can argue about steriods all you want. The reason that Barry is getting skewered by the media is because noone likes him. They dont want him to break the record. He is a jerk, an a$$ and an all around whiner. We like Hank Aaron. We respect what Hank did. Babe Ruth is a deity in baseball. He is simply “the Babe.” And so when we see these beacons of what is “good” being approached by someone that we do not like, we seek to invalidate. In this case people are reaching for the asterisk.

Personally, I’m hoping that Barry will retire, or end his season short of 714.

My dad has been lifting for about 35 years and has used many different suplements, none being steroids. With that being said I know what a person on the juice looks like and what one off of it looks like. I know how a body can change and so on. Bonds took steroids, it’s as simple as that. Despite him gaining a rediculous 50 pounds of muscle, and having his head grow multiple sizes, he is known to have a variety of mood swings, which is a side effect of using steroids. Didn’t he say he didn’t ‘‘knowingly’’ take steroids? Sounds like he does, but doesn’t want to admit it as he approaches the HR record.

you post 2 pictures 16 years apart. that mean he put on 3 pounds of muscle a year. that amount is not thate outstanding for a guy whos only job is to play baseball and workout. i dislike the guy as much as all of you, but i just dont think he was juiiced.

is a site that offers pictures from every year that Bonds has been in the majors. He doesn’t get big until 1998/1999 - the year that he “unknowingly” began taking steriods.

It’s not my point as to whether or not he did. But I think I’m wandering into an answer anyway…It isn’t the cheating it’s the cheater. Perry was an all time great that used methods outside of the rules (doctoring the baseball) to give himself an edge…that is cheating any way you look at it.
If Barry Bonds does the same thing…and say comes up just short of Ruth and Aaron (And Hank faced death threats everytime he took the field while he was making the last run at Ruth, so you can forget the nostalgia that he was so loved…), I think the “world” is gonna hate and try to throw doubt on his accomplishments guilty or not because generally speaking he’s not a great guy who acts like he appreciates the gifts that God gave him, nor the fans that pay for his contract. Call it the Ty Cobb, Pete Rose syndrome…Quitters never win but some jerks can be pretty good.

Hank received death threats because he was black, not because he was a jerk. You cant compare the two, and it is simply unfair to try. Hank had to deal with all types of racists threatening his life. Bonds has caused all the negative attitudes that he now reaps. But what is more important is that Aaron earned his record. You would be hard pressed to say that Barry had to work as hard in his pursuit of the record. And you can see that in the amount of respect that people give to Hank Aaron. Nobody tried to discredit his HR record like they did to Roger Maris or Barry Bonds.

And on your comparison to Gaylord Perry. There really isnt a comparison. Perry may have been one of the greats of all time, but he is not the greatest. If Perry had came close to passing one of the all time greats, like Cy Young or someone, then people may have scrutinized his records more closely. Where he stands now, people are fine to leave his cheating alone.

To compare that to Bonds, did you really hear all this steriod talk 4 years ago? Maybe, but it wasnt very loud. Only in the last 2+ seasons, when Bonds approached the HR records of Mays, Ruth and Aaron, have people really let loose on condemning Bonds as a cheater.

Get a cup and show me …

I believe alot of baseball players use steriods. not mainly to get big, but just to recover from the strenuos jam packed games

KC I wasn’t comparing Bonds to Aaron, not at all, you or someone made a wistful comment on how loved Hank was, he wasn’t (Understandably he is still a very bitter man). I know Bonds is a beast that created his own wounds, nor do I defend him. So if Perry came close to a “treasured” record people/baseball/the press would have not stood for his brand of unfairness? Hummm shaky but a reasonable point. So why doesn’t McGuire have an asteric or the single season should default back to Maris? He and Sammy are as surely a suspect of use of steroids as Barry…or is single season not as treasured a record?

You people who dont think or dont know that Bonds took steroids simply dont know what your talking about. He put out 15 lb of muscle in less than a 3 month period from 98-99. If you know anything about working out you would know this is not possible without the use of steroids. If you still dont believe he’s on the juice get a copy of the Game of Shaddows. It has all the evidence you need. And for you people that say ‘‘he never failed a drug test’’, that’s becuase the clear, a supplement you can take, which Bonds’ was taking, makes it very difficult for steroids to be detected. It’s not that I ‘‘think’’ Bonds was on steroids, it’s I ‘‘know’’ Bonds was on steroids. No human can get that big in that short a time period without using steroids, it’s physically impossible.

McGwire and Sosa were both lovable public figures. It’s hard to remember that now, since both guys have felt the steriod backlash that came after the Congressional hearings. But, back in 1998, most people were engulfed by the tremendous show and spectacle that was Mark and Sammy. People showed up in the thousands to watch them take batting practice…batting practice! I think that, AT THAT TIME, people wanted them to break the record.

Now that we have had some time to let that sink in (8 years), the record is certainly tainted. I have a hard time saying that Sosa, McGwire, or even Bonds should have their records left on the books. It’s not fair to the guys that worked their butts off in order to hit 59, 60, or 61 homers in a season without the benefits of anabolic steriods. The records are supposed to show who the “best” in baseball was. You cant say that those men were the best in the game if they had to take an illegal substance in order to break the record. In my mind, there are many many players that were much better than any of those three men.

But will Selig do anything? Nope.

Although I agree, the homerun numbers are tainted, atleast in the court of public opinion. There are way to many other variables in baseball to say it should or shouldn’t count.

For instance, ballparks are now much smaller, allowing more homeruns, (not only the outfield wall, but the fact there is less foul ground gives some extra AB’s in a big season) the mound is lower, alowing more homeruns, and guys train all year round because they don’t have to keep a day job, allowing more homeruns.

It’s very hard one of the most number crazy sports in the world. Very few other record books are revered as much as baseballs.
It’s funny when you hear a guys career stats,for a gam after 5 pm, north of the mason-dixon line, while his counterpart is a left handed pitcher, and the other team leads of with a lefty.

Just something like that. I honestly don’t think we would be having a discussion if this was any other sport.

That being said, I don’t think there is anything to do. However the court of public opinion may be just as strong as an asterisk in cooperstown

I just found this article on ESPN. It sums up the Bonds situation better than I could ever hope to do.

The Breaking Point

It was a good article and I was with him right up til he got all liberal and stuff.
I guess we can all agree that it is a sad thing, I’m sure it won’t be solved by us…interesting discussion anyway.