Cee & Kre-alkyln Debunked!

[quote]Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

Child R1 and Tallon MJ2

1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (Creapure?). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.


Kre-alkalyn? supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.

I was at the ISSN conference when Mark Tallon presented these and I literally almost high fived him. It’s about time this crap died!

Now no more of this "cee works bro & kre-alkyln works bro’ BS…

-Layne[/quote]

Layne Norton is a competitive natural body builder…

His credentials include the following…

BS in Biochemistry from Eckerd College

PhD candidate in nutritional science with a specialization in skeletal muscle protein metabolism at the University of Illinois

IFPA Natural Bodybuilding Pro

NGA Natural Bodybuilding Pro

More info can be seen here… http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne.htm

The thread with the info can be found here… It was just posted today so I thought I would post it here, too…

It’s funny how marketing and publicity influence sales even when there wasn’t any proof that anything but creatine mono was effective.

Yep… That’s what marketing is all about…

But on the other hand, Orotine does have research backing its effectiveness and I’ve come to trust anything MAN puts out… They provide researched backed products…

And I personally believe MAN Clout is probably the best creatine formulation on the market…

Other then that, from what I’ve read, Magnesium Creatine Chelate does work… I’ll find some studies for you to check out…

Well, from what I’ve read, there are two studies that support MCC’s effectiveness… I’ll look into getting them posted, but anyways, it definitely has promise, and from experience, I can vouche for Green Mag’s effectiveness which has Dicreatine Malate and MCC…

If only it didn’t come in that d*** apple flavor, I would use it…

Yep… That’s what marketing is all about…

But on the other hand, Orotine does have research backing its effectiveness and I’ve come to trust anything MAN puts out… They provide researched backed products…

And I personally believe MAN Clout is probably the best creatine formulation on the market…

Other then that, from what I’ve read, Magnesium Creatine Chelate does work… I’ll find some studies for you to check out…

Well, from what I’ve read, there are two studies that support MCC’s effectiveness… I’ll look into getting them posted, but anyways, it definitely has promise, and from experience, I can vouche for Green Mag’s effectiveness which has Dicreatine Malate and MCC…

If only it didn’t come in that d*** apple flavor, I would use it…[/quote]

Man does make some good stuff.
I’m completely ok with plain mono for now though.
Out of curiousity, what do you think of the cost/benefit of Body Octane vs Bulk Beta-Alanine. I loved body octane but it’s not the cheapest stuff in teh world, although they still give a decent price.

[quote=“centerfield2150”]

Man does make some good stuff.
I’m completely ok with plain mono for now though.
Out of curiousity, what do you think of the cost/benefit of Body Octane vs Bulk Beta-Alanine. I loved body octane but it’s not the cheapest stuff in teh world, although they still give a decent price.[/quote]

Someone actually did a comparative analysis on whether or not buying in bulk would be cheaper…

[quote]MAN Body Octane High-Voltage

Serving Size: 1 Scoop (11.5g)
Servings Per Container: 50

Amount Per Serving:

Vitamin B6 5mg
Vitamin B12 15mcg
Pantothenic Acid 10mg
Niacin 25mg
Folic Acid 400mcg

Citrulline Malate 3.5g
Glucuronolactone 1g
Beta-Alanine 1.6g
L-Aspartic Acid 750mg
L-Carnitine L-Tartrate 1g
Histidine HCl 250mg

A 50 serving container of MAN Body Octane High-Voltage sells at retail sites for $43-$48. Here is a price comparison:

175g bulk Citrulline Malate = $23.33
50g bulk Glucuronolactone = $5.00
80g bulk Beta-Alanine = $8.00
50g bulk Acetyl-L-Carnitine = $4.67
12.5g bulk Histidine = $1.88
Total = $42.88

Body Octane also includes these ingredients per serving which were not included in the $42.88 bulk total:
Vitamin B6 5mg
Vitamin B12 15mcg
Pantothenic Acid 10mg
Niacin 25mg
Folic Acid 400mcg

Body Octane also includes a flavor system which was not included in the bulk total.

Notes:

  • I used the bulk price of Acetyl-L-Carnitine as a substitute for L-Carnitine L-Tartrate because I could not find LCLT in bulk. I am fairly sure the prices of these two would be close if/when LCLT is available in bulk.

  • bulk prices converted for comparison; 75g Citrulline Malate for $10.00; 50g Glucuronolactone for $5.00; 100g Beta-Alanine for $10.00; 75g Acetyl-L-Carnitine for $7.00; 100g bulk Histidine for $15.00

  • I don’t think I need to say much about how good a deal Body Octane is. It should be obvious by looking at the numbers. This product is pretty much as good a deal as you are going to find as a consumer IMO. It would most likely cost you more to try and put this formula together yourself instead of buying the product.[/quote]

I think you might be able to find it for around 35-40 online, and remember, if you’re ordering off of bb.com, they do pricematching… You just have to call them up…

Everytime I make an order with them, I just use the discount codes that are available… I like to save every penny I can when making orders, for example, on my last couple of orders, I have the option of saving about 20 dollars if I send in this in… I just have to mail it in…

Ahh, wait, I can only use the refund once… Ehh, still would save an extra 10 dollars…

Bulk BA is relatively tasteless and extremely cheap now, so you could always buy some and take an extra 3.2 grams to yield 6.4 grams…

100 grams should cost $7.99…

If I didn’t have the money to afford body octane, I would personally go with Bulk Beta Alanine + Bulk Citrulline Malate…

It takes about 12 weeks for carnosine stores to be fully complete… Whether or not one doses at 6.4 grams or 3.2-4 grams, in the long run of things, your carnosine stores will still reach maximum level, I believe…

In the short run, however, 6.4 grams will yield greater results…

Ingredient wise, BO is hard to beat… Plus, it tastes freakin awesome!

Give it a try one of these days to compare results…

Bulk Beta + Bulk Citrulline Malate…

Personally, I’m a huge fan of Citrulline Malate… And from what I’ve read, it doesn’t have any side effects, even dosed as high as 16 grams…