Breaking with ur elbow first, or ur hand

Injuries
#1

If i remember right. The coach ( from the states by the way) told my arm action was real nice, except for breaking with my elbow instead of my hand( reaching ur elbow back first, instead of ur hand down and up)

Now I learned how to break with my hand first, BUT i fell back into breaking with my elbow first. Now I think, myself, that this stresses the shoulder more? is that correct? 'cause I have been having shoulder problems few weeks ago. this might aswell be for in the mechanics forum, but I decided to post it over here!

What do you guys think, or know for sure?

#2

I sincerely hope you didn’t change your mechanics like he told you to. You probably would have experience the opposite. Most MLB pitchers lift with the elbows to load the scaps. This is less stressful on the shoulder capsule if done correctly for reasons I can get into if you would like.

#3

if you wouldnt mind can you please explain this lankylefty. i have struggled with shoulder problems and are interested in what you haveto say.

#4

this will be a priceless .gif for many people on this forum who rarely look at actual clips of MLB pitchers. I can’t believe coaches try to advocate that lifting with the hand is the only way to get the job done. Yes, some MLB pitchers do have longer arm actions, but these pitchers still load the scaps extremely well. My guess is 95% of players who are told to lift with their hand will not actively load the scaps and will end up going linear and placing more stress on the shoulder capsule. When you lift up and back with the elbows, it naturally loads the scaps (pinches shoulder blades together). Man,y many, many HOF pitchers throwing 95+ with excellent control have this kind of arm action.

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#5

from left to right, and then top to bottom, we have

Steven strasburg, throwing upper 90s, a 16 year old high school player (I’ll let you guys take a stab at his velocity), Josh Beckett throwing mid-upper 90s, Aaron Crow throwing mid 90s, Josh Beckett throwing 100 mph, Oliver Perez 94 mph, Edinson Volquez 95 mph, Brian Wilson 98 mph, Ervin Santana 98 mph, Ryan Dempster 98 mph, Roy Oswalt 95 mph, Mariano Rivera mid-upper 90s, Jason Schmidt 94 mph, Bill Wagner 101 mph, Ben Sheets 97 mph, CC Sabathia 97 mph

to get anything out of this .gif or ay clip for that matter you need to be able to go through them frame by frame and compare them.

Download “virtual dub” to do this. It’s free.

#6

Wow that’s a sweet GIF lanky. I’ll add it to the sticky of pitchers.

Who’s the second from the top right? Well one I dunno who he is, and two looks like he has a high elbow.

#7

Thatd be edison volquez peavy.

#8

Sorry typo second from top LEFT.

#9

it’s a high school pitcher. Just for comparison.

#10

Isn’t that that one high school kid he was talking about?

#11

I posted before he edited his post with the labels.

You labeled it from right to left, not left to right, and top to bottom, not bottom to top, by the way.

#12

they dont break with their elbows, their hand goes down first.

thats what i mean
i used to point my elbow back then let my hands follow.

Im still having trouble with my shoulder

therapie isnt working that well :frowning:

#13

[quote=“jpeavy44”]I posted before he edited his post with the labels.

You labeled it from right to left, not left to right, and top to bottom, not bottom to top, by the way.[/quote]

Post #666

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

#14

Why is CC throwing right handed?

On a second note: you put the ball in your back pocket, and then bring your hands up but don’t let your elbow get above your shoulder until when you ex. rotate. if it’s at the level of your shoulders that alright.

#15

RodriGueZ,

There are other possible causes for shoulder issues. Why do you think your shoulder problems are due to how you break your hands?

#16

Lefty, I know that you know there is a distinct difference between

  1. breaking the hands
  2. scap load

Those MLB pitchers break (ie, separate their hands from each other) with their hands, not elbows. But they soon after start their scap load (elbows pulling back)

#17

Because he flipped it to show a better comparison. Surprisingly enough, he’s the only lefty out of the major leaguers in that.

#18

since i changed my arm action a bit. now i know before it was just fine, I even threw harder back then. i went from smooth long motion wich i touched 80mph with( before elbow injury o.O) then to an agressive back n forward motion( elbows straight back) from my knowlodge and feeling my shoulder got sum stress from that. didnt even touch 75mph with it( also cuz of my shoulder)

#19

[quote=“LankyLefty”]from left to right, and then top to bottom, we have

Steven strasburg, throwing upper 90s, a 16 year old high school player (I’ll let you guys take a stab at his velocity), Josh Beckett throwing mid-upper 90s, Aaron Crow throwing mid 90s, Josh Beckett throwing 100 mph, Oliver Perez 94 mph, Edinson Volquez 95 mph, Brian Wilson 98 mph, Ervin Santana 98 mph, Ryan Dempster 98 mph, Roy Oswalt 95 mph, Mariano Rivera mid-upper 90s, Jason Schmidt 94 mph, Bill Wagner 101 mph, Ben Sheets 97 mph, CC Sabathia 97 mph

to get anything out of this .gif or ay clip for that matter you need to be able to go through them frame by frame and compare them.

Download “virtual dub” to do this. It’s free.[/quote]

I completely disagree with your analysis. Rivera works out at our facility back east and most certainly DOES NOT advocate leading with the elbows. In fact, I don’t think most of the guys you are showing lead with the elbows and the ones that do (to some extent) have a history of arm problems. Leading with the elbow produces rotator cuff impingement and bad timing in external rotation. Kids as young as 8 or 9 that I have worked with that lead with the elbow have shown increased soreness in the back and nearly all exhibit loss of ROM in internal rotation.

So called Scap Loading DOES NOT happen as a result of throwing arm action and stating so shows a complete lack of understanding of the concept. Scap Loading occurs when the front shoulder opens, LONG after the throwing arm has completed its arc and is (hopefully) in a forearm vertical position. I am to the point where I completely cringe at the mention of the term Scap Loading because it is so misunderstood.

I’d also question what point you are making by advocating leading with the elbow and then posting these pitchers velocity. Are you in some way suggesting that leading with the elbow is a way to create/increase velocity? Arm path has no bearing on velocity.

I hate to be so negative in response, but this is a really bad and potentially dangerous post, IMHO. I would really like to know at what frame in the motion of Rivera and Oswalt, in particular, you feel they are leading with the elbow.

I’d also like to see frames where you feel a pitcher is scap loading prior to their front shoulder opening.

#20

rbish, what do you mean by leading with the elbows? is this associated with scap loading.