Breaking the hands late article

http://www.baseballdigestdaily.com/bullpen/?option=com_content&task=view&id=485

what do you think? accurate?

Sort of accurate, but I’d stay away from Alex Eisenberg because he advises some bad things, such as short-arming the ball, and picking the ball up with the elbows(which leads to arm injuries).

Yes, that article seems accurate. A later handbreak can make a huge difference in ones career. However, you have to try it out to know if it will make a difference or not. Its a trial and error process. But if you are having trouble with your arm action being too slow it will likely help, but like I said try it out.

It’s OK to break the hands late, but you need to use proper arm action.

Like everything else, this is an opinion, but I completely disagree with that article. Breaking the hands late will speed up the arm action, but before shoulder rotation. No velocity before shoulder rotation. Long arm arc, short arm arc, makes no difference.

What it can and does lead to is an “elbow first” arm action into external rotation. The forearm isn’t vertical at the start of shoulder rotation and produces additional stress in the ligaments, IMO.

I believe in an early hand break to ensure the arm is at the right spot when shoulder rotation starts.

[quote=“RBish11”]Like everything else, this is an opinion, but I completely disagree with that article. Breaking the hands late will speed up the arm action, but before shoulder rotation. No velocity before shoulder rotation. Long arm arc, short arm arc, makes no difference.

What it can and does lead to is an “elbow first” arm action into external rotation. The forearm isn’t vertical at the start of shoulder rotation and produces additional stress in the ligaments, IMO.

I believe in an early hand break to ensure the arm is at the right spot when shoulder rotation starts.[/quote]Breaking the hands late doesn’t put additional stress on the ligaments because the forearm isn’t horizontal, there are many pitchers that have this arm action and timing that throw the ball 95 plus and have had injury free seasons. Breaking your hands late is actually something you can do to time your delivery. If you feel like your too early in throwing the ball, you should break you hands later, if you feel like your being rushed, then you break them earlier. I personally break my hands a little after my front foot begins towards home plate, much like Mark Prior, and have had tremendous success with this.

NEVER EVER EVER COPY MARK PRIOR IN ANYTHING!!! :nono: Does this make even remote sense to you?! Mark Prior has the worst mechanics imagineable, and as a result, has a boatload of injuries. Why would you copy an injury-riddled pitcher that doesn’t throw hard anymore, while you could copy a pitcher that has never been injured, but threw hard, like Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens, or J.R. Richard.

[quote=“kevinbert28”]
NEVER EVER EVER COPY MARK PRIOR IN ANYTHING!!! :nono: Does this make even remote sense to you?! Mark Prior has the worst mechanics imagineable, and as a result, has a boatload of injuries. Why would you copy an injury-riddled pitcher that doesn’t throw hard anymore, while you could copy a pitcher that has never been injured, but threw hard, like Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens, or J.R. Richard.[/quote]

Who does this sound like?

Breaking the hands late – early — half way… what?

Take a video camera with you the next time you play catch, or simply toss the ball back and forth to stretch out the arm and get yourself ready to play ball.

During a normal game of catch, or, even a session of long toss, your body is going to be in an optimum position to throw the ball. In that regard, your body is relaxed, no pressure to do this-or-that, your balance is reasonably stable, you progress forward and rotate torso and shoulders trying to loosen up all the upper body that you can, and even your legs gets into it.

Now granted, your not pitching. But you can learn a lot from your own body’s ability to stabilize itself and get the most of what its doing - WITHOUT YOU THINKING ABOUT IT.

Let the video camera run throughout your entire toss session. Now if your like most players, your going to increase your intensity as time goes on. AT THAT POINT OF INCREASED INTENSITY, PLAY BACK THE MOTION IN SLOW MOTION AND WATCH WHAT THE BODY IS TRYING TO TELL YOU ABOUT BREAKING YOUR HANDS.

Where do you break you hands and why. Think this out clearly. Run the video over and over again until it sinks in. Then go to your pitching routine and incorporate what your body is trying to tell you . And all this is right in front of you on camera, stuff that your body is trying to tell you … but you never though to ask.

In athletic performance, the human body as a lot of natural, …" you’re born with stuff", that’ll help you.
Coach B.

[quote]Who does this sound like?[/quote] I guess you think I sound like Chris O’Leary. But look at Prior and Gibson side by side. You can surely see why Prior had an injury-riddled career, and why Gibson had a long, productive career.

kevinbert28,

Man if it were as easy as this, I’d be a gazillionaire…

Please lets just leave poor ole Mark Prior out of this! I mean really, the guy was drafted by the Yankees in the 1998 draft, didn’t sign, (I’m likin this guy already!); attended USC, won the Dick Howser Trophy (Look that one up!); got a business degree while he played professional baseball;pitched in the 2003 NLCS and was sabbatoged by injury through no fault of his own (My personal opinion !)

So…it all just seems so ridiculous to parade Mark Prior around as some poster child for bad mechanics. You know, like an inner city tag artist criticizing Picasso. :?

NEVER EVER EVER COPY MARK PRIOR IN ANYTHING!!! :nono: Does this make even remote sense to you?! Mark Prior has the worst mechanics imagineable, and as a result, has a boatload of injuries. Why would you copy an injury-riddled pitcher that doesn’t throw hard anymore, while you could copy a pitcher that has never been injured, but threw hard, like Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens, or J.R. Richard.[/quote]

Prior maintains good posture and balance through the delivery. But don’t copy that.

Prior has a good stride length. But don’t copy that.

Prior has good kinematic sequencing with hips rotating before shoulders. Definitely don’t want to copy that.

Prior stays closed long and rotates the shoulders late. Nope, don’t copy that.

Yep, them are some bad mechanics. :roll:

Over-generalized comments that imply all of Prior’s mechanics are bad and that Prior is a “trainwreck” are misguided. If you don’t like the "inverted W’ thing, then say so. But don’t over-generalize unless you really think everything about Prior’s mechanics are bad. And, if that’s the case, I’d be interested to hear your explanation as to why the things I listed above are bad.

I don’t like how Prior hyperabducts. I don’t like his inverted w. I don’t like his linear stride. I don’t like how he has crappy lower-body mechanics. Look 4 flaws, he is THE poster-boy for bad mechanics. Greg Maddux is THE poster-boy for good mechanics. Greg Maddux, 0 flaws. Greg Maddux: 4 cy young awards. Mark Prior: 7 longest and least productive time on DL awards(I mad that up, but Prior would have 7). Prior will not get into the Hall of Fame, Maddux will. Case Closed.

OMG :pullinghair:

This is Halloween but I didn’t think Chris O’Leary was capable of taking over the body of a poor defenseless 12 year old from Pittsburgh. Talk about night of the living dead. Chilly Billy, “What’s next? The fish that Ate Pittsburgh?”

The only reason Maddux had such a long, injury free career was because he did not throw hard enough to have any serious arm injuries. Nothing against Maddux, its just he didn’t throw major league level cheese.

I believe Prior’s problems were a combination of overuse, probably lack of arm care, and just because he threw so hard.

You cannot throw close to 100 mph and be the poster boy for bad mechanics.

Dino, that was pretty funny!!

[quote]The only reason Maddux had such a long, injury free career was because he did not throw hard enough to have any serious arm injuries. Nothing against Maddux, its just he didn’t throw major league level cheese.

I believe Prior’s problems were a combination of overuse, probably lack of arm care, and just because he threw so hard.

You cannot throw close to 100 mph and be the poster boy for bad mechanics.
[/quote]

Is Mark Prior going to be in the Hall of Fame?No.
Is Greg Maddux going to be in the Hall of Fame?Yes.
Did Mark Prior have arm problems?Yes.
Did Greg Maddux have arm problems?No.
Whose mechanics do you think that I will study? Greg Maddux’s

All right, I am done discussing Mark Prior/Greg Maddux mechanics, I believe that everybody has a right to their opinion, and let’s not argue. Like laflippin said"discussing who is the best is for drunks in bars".

Lets all take a second and take a deep breathe. Okay, lets examine this argument of Prior and Maddux. Yes Prior had multiple arm injuries, but he also was abused in 03 by Dusty Baker (Aaron Harang and Edinson Volquez have both had arm issues ever since Baker came to Cinncinati, so there may be a trend). He also had 2 other arm injuries do to simply to luck (line drive off elbow, and seperated shoulder). As Roger said, there is plenty to like about Prior from a Tom House perspective. He performs all of Houses absolutes. Maddux, never had an arm injury. But he was a different style of pitcher. Prior was a power pitcher, Maddux was a control. You can’t compare mechanics because they had different styles and strength levels.
Kevinbert28, You like O’leary and seem to be one of his followers. While I agree with O’Leary on some levels, he thinks that mechanics are the only reason for injury. He forgets to add in numerous other factors such as conditioning or nutrition.
If I’m not mistaken there are 2 guys on the Red Sox (Beckett and Lester) who have a later arm action (Which O’Leary does not like). They have had a combined 3 arm injuries combined in their times in the leagues and all have been minor sprains or inflammation which nearly every pitcher will experience at some time. But they have exposure to one of the best shoulder programs in the world, one that nearly all of the Red Sox pitchers swear by. The only one this offseason who didn’t follow it got injured (Dice-K). And guess what, O’Leary likes his mechanics. I respect your opinion, but think that you need to seriously look at other pitching “gurus” before making your final statement about which one you agree with.

You can have serious arm injuries without throwing 90. My friend throws low 80s and just had shoulder surgery. Another one of my friends threw 75 and broke his arm while pitching. I would say both of those are pretty serious arm injuries wouldn’t you?

[quote]Lets all take a second and take a deep breathe. Okay, lets examine this argument of Prior and Maddux. Yes Prior had multiple arm injuries, but he also was abused in 03 by Dusty Baker (Aaron Harang and Edinson Volquez have both had arm issues ever since Baker came to Cinncinati, so there may be a trend). He also had 2 other arm injuries do to simply to luck (line drive off elbow, and seperated shoulder). As Roger said, there is plenty to like about Prior from a Tom House perspective. He performs all of Houses absolutes. Maddux, never had an arm injury. But he was a different style of pitcher. Prior was a power pitcher, Maddux was a control. You can’t compare mechanics because they had different styles and strength levels.
Kevinbert28, You like O’leary and seem to be one of his followers. While I agree with O’Leary on some levels, he thinks that mechanics are the only reason for injury. He forgets to add in numerous other factors such as conditioning or nutrition.
If I’m not mistaken there are 2 guys on the Red Sox (Beckett and Lester) who have a later arm action (Which O’Leary does not like). They have had a combined 3 arm injuries combined in their times in the leagues and all have been minor sprains or inflammation which nearly every pitcher will experience at some time. But they have exposure to one of the best shoulder programs in the world, one that nearly all of the Red Sox pitchers swear by. The only one this offseason who didn’t follow it got injured (Dice-K). And guess what, O’Leary likes his mechanics. I respect your opinion, but think that you need to seriously look at other pitching “gurus” before making your final statement about which one you agree with.[/quote] Yes, I am an O’leary follower, but I follow Dick Mills too. I love the Sox, and I can’t find anything wrong with Lester, Beckett, or Matsuzaka in terms of mechanics. Yes, you are right, O’Leary does nothing about nutrition or conditioning. I guess I need to broaden my horizon, but without O’Leary, I wouldn’t have hit .538 or had a 2.00 ERA this year. So yeah…