BodyBuilding


#1

LOOK WHAT I FOUND

Personal Info And Background:
Real Name: Frank
Sex: Male
Age: 17
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Occupation: Aspiring Pitcher
Personal Website: http://www.myspace.com/yankeesfanforlife
Gym: World’s Gym
Gym Location: Anchorage
When I Started:
How I Started: I started training towards the end of my sophmore year going into baseball season… At the time, I wasn’t well established as far as training techniques are concerned, and pretty much just focused on bench and dumbbell squats… As the baseball season wore on, however, I began to put more of my emphasis on full body routines in an effort to increase my recovery times, and in the process, I went from throwing 50 plus mph-low-mid 70’s in a little over 2 months… Granted, I also worked rediculously hard on improving my mechanics… It was after this baseball season that I began to fully appreciate the lifestyle of a body builder… Still, however, I had much to learn, and even more research to devour my time into.

Through the use of google, a pecuilar site eroded its way onto my screen, and in the process, the addiction began…

BB.com: At first, I was a little suspect of the site since I was fairly new to lifting, and, in reality, didn’t have any where else to look for information other then a brother of mine. I never put much emphasis into reading the “muscle” magazines because, in reality, I never cared to look at them nor read them.

But I had heard of place called GNC, and was always fascinated by the place due to the fact the majority of people pointed my way towards them.

Whooh… 100 bucks down the drain:
Two Items: Creatine Monohydrate, and GNC whey protein… Never again, but being the rookie I was at the time, and even though I still consider myself a rookie in regards to training/supplementation-okay, I lied, a semi-pro rookie now, lol… But I digress…

I felt the need to continually go back there, and so came December 3, 2005!

After baseball season had ended, and my curiosity towards the sport of bodybuidling grew, I began to realize that I may have potential in regards to pitching, and the success that it may lead into. Like a sugar filled child, I couldn’t wait to get back on that mound, but I knew, that somehow, in order to ever have a shot at pitching professionally, or even in the minors, I had to put on some weight! And so I began talking with my pitching coach in order to persuade him to working out with me.

I still wasn’t quite sure what exactly I was supposed to be doing, and seeing how he had pitched collegiately, and had trained with professional strength trainers from the MLB, he immediately put me under the squat rack, and from that moment on, I fell in love with squatting…

Okay, maybe I didn’t due to the fact that I had struggled to even squat 95 lbs at the time, and with the barbell piercing the back end of neck, I wimped like a school-girl fairy wining to her father on why she didn’t get to ride the pony. :frowning: But quickly, as I became more experienced in the weight room, and months went by, the squat rack became my arch rival-I didn’t need any freaken towels, or neck supporters to make the exercise more comfortable, what I needed was a kick in the mass, and a little placebo effect…

December 3rd: I purchased the GNC Mega Men multivitamin, and seeing how I still didn’t know what exactly I was doing, and still eating like crap, somehow, this mulitivitamin filled me with an everlasting energy which showed in the gym!

Usually, I wore out pretty quickly as I went from one exercise to the other, and sometimes felt the need to past out- not literally, but a couple times I came close to, only on leg days of course, but with this new multivitamin, I felt I could lift forever! Even though I had been taking two at a time around 5 in the morning, and lifting at 5 at night, somehow, I felt like a time bomb waiting to explode!

:frowning: Blahhh… But even with this new tickling sensation of what I had come to be my fascination towards the bb lifestyle, I couldn’t quite understand some of my GI Issues. For the longest time, I had been supplementing with GNC chocolate whey protein, and, with time, switched to the cult classic that was ON Whey 100 % protein! The beast of all proteins! Sadly, it took me towards the end of my junior year to realize the GI issues was coming from my whey protein, and apparently, I was even lactose intolerant!

Each and everyday, the tumbling of my stomach haunted me through the coarse of what was to be, my high school life for one year…

“After baseball season had ended, and my curiosity towards the sport of bodybuidling grew”

Bodybuilding i see ok

Bodybuilding is not a baseball workout. You look at most MLB pitchers they dont bodybuild. The hitters mabey but the pitcher No. In the MLB what they do band work, stabilization and balance exercises like med ball touch downs.
And dont tell me they do because I have a video with Mike Clark one of the most well known baseball trainers and they rarely use machines if at all. And im going to post why bodybuilding is not as good as Functional training in the next post.


#2

Function- intergraded multi planer movement that involves acceleration and deceleration also stabilization.

Core Stabilization- is the foundation upon all other aspects of intergraded training are based. The core is considered the lumber pelvic hip complex, thorastic spine and cervical spine. The core operates as an integrated functional unit to dynamically [which means movement] stabilize the kinetic chain during functional movement. What that all means is if you are doing any movement such as side ways, backwards, transverse, in order for the body to stop from falling down or collapsing the core is what stabilizes the body. You can not fire the muscles in the core with weight room training. You need to do core stabilization.

3- Ways muscles function- eccentric when they decelerate. Then there are muscles Isometric that are used to stabilize. And then concentric to accelerate. And weight room training is only Uner Planer and Concentric so you miss the Isometric and the Eccentric movements.

Weight training uses uner planer force production. On machines like a leg extension or bench press even a leg press you are using the concentric muscle contractions which are acceleration so it leaves out deceleration and stabilization. When you are on a machine it gives an artificial base of stabilization. Plus the join angles are predictable and in pitching they are different all the time. Also you are pitching at different joint angles and speeds that’s why weight room training is so limiting because there is no multi planer movement.

Weight training you have to have a plan there are only to thing that a machine is good for its rehabilitation and muscle size. And pitching is not about size. Also when you pitch you are on 1 leg at a time not 2 so thats why weight room training is even more limiting.

I tried my best to find this Info I will try to find more.


#3

Why don’t instead of doing bench press you do push-ups and all different kinds.
Here are some good pushups that work all kinds of pectoral and shoulder muscles. And it does shoulder stabilization and some core.

regular push-ups
1/2 moon [that’s when you move in a circle on your hands
Rotational push-ups
Left hand on a box then right hand pushups
Walk over the box pushups

There are all kinds that you can do that are better and do more then weight room machines. Also when doing push-ups the scapula can go into its normal position. Plus you make the fasa and tendons stronger and increase the integrity of the workout and the whole joint system.


#4

LOL! What’s your point? You saw the word “bodybuilder,” and construed your argument towards me, and others on how weight lifting is detrimental to a pitcher’s success. :shock: :mrgreen: lol at the stupidity you’re showing-again, I’m going to mention this-

Your ideas are good, your posts are flawed as you seem to have no respect for other board members…


#5

Do you just read selectively and then make up the rest?

Okay, eccentric contractions occur in all kinds of exercises. Bench pressing for instance- going from the chest to fully locked out is a concentric, bringing the weight back down to the chest is eccentric. The muscles are stretched, but they are still supporting and controlling the weight. That is what eccentric means.

Secondly, there are many exercises with multi-planar movement. Have you ever done a weighted lunge? A full clean? A snatch? Of course you haven’t, you are too busy burying your head in the sand and making up reasons why these exercises are bad.

Pushups have their place inside of a strength training program, just like any other exercise. I’ve had them in the routines that are posted here. They are a good base for explosive movements (handclap pushups, for example). However, the olympic lifts are still better for building head to toe power and explosiveness.


#6

Kc you missed over the most important part YES eccentric is in weight lifting but there is NO stabilization or Isometric in weight lifting also the joint angles are more then not predictable.

Functional Training most of the MLB clubs have separate rooms for pitchers where there are not machines just dynadic’s, Swiss balls, Medicine balls they also have band work and stuff like that. They are not machine pitchers anymore they are functional. Yes you will always have the Roger Clemens that machine lifts but he is one of the few that do now. Mike Clark a well known MLB trainer doesn’t use machines and he works with about 60 MLB players at a time.
Also as I have also said this a lot and it is true that BASEBALL is not a POWER sport it is a SPEED sport that involves skill to speed up the arm.


#7

power and speed are related…there is no one or the other


#8

Since when did we start equating lifting weights with using a machine? I dont use machines, and Barber rarely uses machines.

Now, on to stabilization. When you are bench pressing, the weight is free. Have you ever watched someone lift for the first time? The bar wavers from above their nose to the rib cage. The stabilizer muscles have to adjust to the heavy load. A better example is the squat. The limiting factor in how much you can lift is rarely your quads and hamstrings, it is the torso/ core that has to keep your upper body from collapsing under the weight. Same goes with deadlifts.

It wouldnt be hard to involve isometrics in your program. One example would be a “Cliffhanger” (I dont know if they have a name, thats my name for it), where you take a pullup grip and hold at the top of the movement. Time will vary based on strength, but 30 seconds is a good thing to aim for. You can switch it up by going with the chin up grip, OR you could throw a little hot sauce on it by draping a towel over the bar and gripping the towel instead of the bar.


#9

From Max Ratofor, physio-kineticist

Okay, now let me expand on the whole power vs. speed thing we have going now. Power is the amount of tension that you are able to generate in the muscle. When you are lifting something, it is the contraction that moves the weight, and the contraction is based on tension within the muscle fibers. Now, if it were this simple, we could simply stick a football lineman out on the hill and be done with it. But, it isn’t that simple.

As stated above, the application of power to the baseball has to take place in 1/10th of a single second. If your training matrix does not consist of movements at that type of speed, you will not be able to throw a baseball any harder than before. The fastest strength training exercises that I have encountered are Olympic lifts. You have to EXPLODE to do these lifts properly, just like you have to explode when throwing a baseball. You are training the muscle fibers to apply the tension in a short but extremely intense burst.

You still following? Okay, so when you throw a ball, there are numerous muscle groups firing to propel the ball to the plate. The lower body is pushing off the rubber, hips are rotating. Upper body is firing on all cylinders as well- the torso/ core, the shoulder, tricep, forearm, on down to the fingertips. Pitching is a complete body movement, and all of the driving muscles have to contract in order to throw the ball.

Speed is not a cause, speed is the result of strength. The ability to have your muscles contract quickly is called “Speed Strength.” This is part of what you train the muscle to do when you do strength training. I could go on and on about the different types of strength, and why each is important, but lets break it down with an analogy. If you had a car, would you want one with a motor that could get to it’s top speed in only 4 seconds? Now, what if the top speed was only 30 miles per hour? Not as satisfying, is it? That is exactly what you are doing if you neglect maximal strength in favor of speed strength. You need maximal strength, speed strength, and strength endurance if you want to get to your true potential.

By now, I am fairly certain that RIstar wont even read this before making his next comment. However, I hope that somebody out there can benefit (even just a little) from the various debates we have going on right now on this subforum.


#10

I understand what you are saying but thats with free weights not a machine so you are right about that. But no general strength can be put into baseball. You could have to kids almost the same size one alot stronger and the weaker kid throws faster because he knows how to use the body. So that general strength didnt go into pitching.

But Kc I understand what you are trying to say.
I have one q’s why are most baseball teamsin the MLB going to functional training with multi planer movement and not the same joint angles as machine or free weights?
Roger Clemens threw 95+ in boston and has got bigger and slower?
Now Nolan Ryan is different he stayed the same size and velocity never droped off.
Mike Clark works with barry zito and he has never been hurt is it because of the way he trains himself. Note that barrys mechanics are not the best.


#11

KC, you’ll enjoy this: It relates to your car analogy!

I think this goes 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, crazy!


#12

[quote=“RIstar”]I understand what you are saying but thats with free weights not a machine so you are right about that. But no general strength can be put into baseball. You could have to kids almost the same size one alot stronger and the weaker kid throws faster because he knows how to use the body. So that general strength didnt go into pitching.

But Kc I understand what you are trying to say.
I have one q’s why are most baseball teamsin the MLB going to functional training with multi planer movement and not the same joint angles as machine or free weights?
Roger Clemens threw 95+ in boston and has got bigger and slower?
Now Nolan Ryan is different he stayed the same size and velocity never droped off.
Mike Clark works with barry zito and he has never been hurt is it because of the way he trains himself. Note that barrys mechanics are not the best.[/quote]

KC, it’s not worth it…

P.S. Roger Clemens is like 43 years old (great analogy :roll: )… Still dominating though-guess that’s where hard work gets you!


#13

We will see where the bodybuilding gets you.


#14

I’m not bodybuilding, but okay, good luck to you, too!


#15

That example is ridiculous. If you had two kids who were the exact same size, with the exact same mechanics, the stronger kid would throw faster. There is absolutely no way to deny that.

[quote]But Kc I understand what you are trying to say.
I have one q’s why are most baseball teamsin the MLB going to functional training with multi planer movement and not the same joint angles as machine or free weights?
Roger Clemens threw 95+ in boston and has got bigger and slower?
Now Nolan Ryan is different he stayed the same size and velocity never droped off.
Mike Clark works with barry zito and he has never been hurt is it because of the way he trains himself. Note that barrys mechanics are not the best.[/quote]
Okay, first off you have no idea what functional training is. I insist that you stop using the word to make yourself sound smart.
Secondly, Roger Clemens has continued to play at the highest level when most men would physically fall apart. His velocity is still above average and he can heat it up to 95+ if the need is there. The only noticeable decline in velocity would more likely be attributable to his age, and the effect which that has on the generation of muscular tension and overall strength. Everyone will have to deal with a decrease in your athleticism as you get older, it’s simple biology. The fact that Roger can still throw as hard as he can is a tribute to his work ethic and his hard training.


#16

kc again would you define functional training to me and what you think it is?


#17

That example is ridiculous. If you had two kids who were the exact same size, with the exact same mechanics, the stronger kid would throw faster. There is absolutely no way to deny that.

[quote]But Kc I understand what you are trying to say.
I have one q’s why are most baseball teamsin the MLB going to functional training with multi planer movement and not the same joint angles as machine or free weights?
Roger Clemens threw 95+ in boston and has got bigger and slower?
Now Nolan Ryan is different he stayed the same size and velocity never droped off.
Mike Clark works with barry zito and he has never been hurt is it because of the way he trains himself. Note that barrys mechanics are not the best.[/quote]
Okay, first off you have no idea what functional training is. I insist that you stop using the word to make yourself sound smart.
Secondly, Roger Clemens has continued to play at the highest level when most men would physically fall apart. His velocity is still above average and he can heat it up to 95+ if the need is there. The only noticeable decline in velocity would more likely be attributable to his age, and the effect which that has on the generation of muscular tension and overall strength. Everyone will have to deal with a decrease in your athleticism as you get older, it’s simple biology. The fact that Roger can still throw as hard as he can is a tribute to his work ethic and his hard training.[/quote]

quit trying, your trying to educate someone who already knows everything. He’s right no matter what, the world revolves around his opinion.


#18

First how about a quote that you should really read, RIstar:

“The wisest man in the world is the man who knows there is much he does not know.”
-Socrates

[quote=“RIstar”]I understand what you are saying but thats with free weights not a machine so you are right about that. But no general strength can be put into baseball. You could have to kids almost the same size one alot stronger and the weaker kid throws faster because he knows how to use the body. So that general strength didnt go into pitching.
[/quote]

RIstar, I have to really wonder where you are getting this so called information, to be honest it makes me laugh. You are only hurting your chances to improve, and by posting these “statements” you are possibly hurting another persons as well…

As usual KC is absolutely on the money. You strength train to become a better athlete and in turn to become a better ballplayer.

Why RIstar must you keep putting weight lifting with all this healthclub isolation machine workout BS that our society has come to love. I cannot blame you for your ignorance as I saw an infomercial the other day whose marketing angle was that you used multiple muscles at the same time and this was some kind of break through from what people have been doing… lol.

I must say that you must really fish hard for your examples, because they make little sense.

WHO HAS BRAINWASHED YOU TO THINK WEIGHT LIFTING IS ALL ISOLATION AND SPECIFIC ANGLES.

I’m also curious how you receive all this “inside information” on what baseball teams are doing for training and what they don’t do…

Roger Clemens is an absolute genetic freak, and I have a feeling he would say his longetivity can be in part contributed to his hardcore conditioning.

As far as Barry Zito is concerned, that’s great he’s injury free, he’s only 28 though, I will point that out. And umm, have you thought for a minute that if Barry wasn’t left handed that he may not have pitchced a game in the bigs. He doesn’t throw the ball 90 mph hardly ever. He has one of the sickest curveballs in the game, but David Wells used to, and he would say his preparation involved sitting and alcohol. I’m not saying Barry Zito isn’t athletic, but who’s to say he has maximized his athleticism, and that it wouldn’t be better using another method.

RIstar, I’m looking forward to your answer.


#19

ok this information has come from mike clark a performance inhancer for MLB teams. So my idea of weight lifting is not off the wall like you think it is. This is a new thing in the MLB that they have been doing.
Ooo by the way, the way you create explosive power with functional training is Plyometrics. And its not like i dont use any weight I use up to ten pounds. I know its not alot but pitchers should do low weight and high reps.


#20

I apologize for my lashing out, it prevents intelligent discussion, however I can’t say that I totally agree either.

[quote=“RIstar”]ok this information has come from mike clark a performance inhancer for MLB teams. So my idea of weight lifting is not off the wall like you think it is. This is a new thing in the MLB that they have been doing

Ooo by the way, the way you create explosive power with functional training is Plyometrics. And its not like i dont use any weight I use up to ten pounds. I know its not alot but pitchers should do low weight and high reps.[/quote]

For one thing, it is my opinion that the MLB should not be completely replicated for the development of pitchers.
MLB players are high dollar investments. They aren’t generally trying to become far better athletes at such a point in their career. Rather sustaining it, and to polish their on the field performance.
Honestly once you see a guy in the “show” it’s pretty rare to see him throw any harder the next year, I honestly cannot recall a time that this has ever happened.

This is why if you want to gain velocity and power, I don’t think that the MLB is the best template to work from.

Also speed and power can be developed with plyometrics, but if you weight lift properly your power can absolutely go through the roof.
If I must I will google for the study that shows bench pressing to increase pitching velocity better than upper body plyo’s. I believe it was a 4% gain versus less than 1% gain.

Also many and the method that I am most interested in “Russian Conjugate method” include plyometrics in the regular program.

Here ya go, here’s your plyometrics for you, sick actually


54" Box jump on by a ballplayer, who amazingly enough has been doing hard weightlifting as well as plyo’s… what a concept.
He’s gained 14" on his vertical jump in 5 months, he’s definately explosive, he’s been weightlifting.

Again, I look forward to your response.