I was reading off of another site and I came across this is someones post, and it got me thinking.
So I’m rather curious to see people’s opinions from this site on this quote since there is a very common theme to ask right off the bat when talking either in the chat room or while posting, “How hard do you throw?”
I get the impression that many of us on this site fall under this quote.
Yes. I am training for velocity right now and as I get mentally stronger and throw more, I believe my location will follow suit. That’s my mindset.
If by obsessed you mean willing to throw everything away just to get that 90mph pitch, even if it hits the mascot, no.
About your quote: If I were a scout, I’d notice the kids with high velocity first but then if they couldn’t hit water from a boat, I’d be less tempted by them. Simply put, at the higher levels, everyone throws 85+ (except wake).
Ok I have an idea about what I’m training for it’s:
MPH
Arm Endurhance
ARm Strength
Body Strength
with all the things I listed everytime I take the mound I focus on what i want to hit and throw it very hard to that spot. I don’t like to think of location as right where you want it only near where you want it. Because for someone 15 you need to throw hard then if you throw hard then you want to try to harness the location. But when you think of a pitcher that locates good you want to think of one that does it with HIGH MPH not low mph on the corner.
That quote isn’t talking about training…
I’m sorry I miss read it lol
i dont care about velocity out of the amount of difference between my fastball and changeup.
Care to give another answer then RIstar?
Ya lost me…
Since people are missing the Quote here it is again
The obsession with velocity is the root of all evil. Everyone in the game preaches location and control and the ability to throw strikes, but then judges the pitcher on velocity.
You strive for more MPH and look to control everything you can. If you gain 5 mph then you look to control it the best you can. MPH and control go hand in hand but MPH in high school is more important then control even though you should look to harness your MPH with average control. But do not slow down your MPH for location.
4 qualities of good pitching:
1 thru 3 in any order you want. Velo is always #4.
If all you focus on is blowing it by the batter, eventually you’ll get creamed.
The primary purpose of velocity is to reduce the batters time to adapt to movement, change of speed.
As 4Pie said, if your FB and change look the same to a batter coming out of your hand, a 12 to 15 mph difference becomes a K and not a foul ball. It’s the difference that matters, not the top speed. Same with movement. If it looks the same, the pitch gets mis-hit and that’s usually an out.
Cheers;
O
It’s posts like this, that really make me wonder about you… MPH and control DO NOT go hand in hand, reading that I get the impression that you’re saying as MPH go up your control gets better… that doesn’t happen, if anything as your velo goes up you have to work that much more on your ability to control it.
[quote=“Orygun”]4 qualities of good pitching:
1 thru 3 in any order you want. Velo is always #4.
[/quote]
Couldn’t agree with you more
yes i said that as the MPH goes up you want to try to harness the control.
They do go hand in hand you want to get good MPH and good control at same time. you strive to get both to become better.
My opinion is, tempered with experience, that a high school varsity coach wants a kid to throw strikes and give him an opportunity to win, real fast is real nice but if you can’t get anyone out it doesn’t matter. Once beyond that, velocity is THE decider, I wish we could all get around it and approach every kid with the intentions of making him throw like Maddux, but if 86 stands beside 94, 94 gets attention by the best, 86 will go to the next rung down (These are example speeds). Time and again I’ve seen it, saw it just last weekend…94 and literally hundreds of scouts, 86 and a good number but not near as many.
The whole list that Orygun laid out is correct, a kid has to approach pitching from a holistic angle in order to reach beyond varsity ball, so all of the attributes apply as a pre-curser to post hs pitching. Look guys don’t just drop out of the air and pump 94 mph gas, they develop as pitchers and are blessed to have the physical attributes to pitch the ball at those speeds. I can’t remember the last guy to make it in mlb that couldn’t get to 90 and beyond. Wakefield was an outdielder looking to stay in baseball when he developed his knuck…etc.
For the most part I agree with what you’ve said jdfromfla!
I too have seen 94 stand beside 84-86 and it was the same thing tons of scouts drooling at 94 and some looks at 84, but the key after that was location.
94 threw 4 strikes in a 15 pitch side, 3 he sailed over the net the rest were balls no where close to the zone. Scouts ALL stopped drooling and looked at 84-86. Guy located changed speeds and had a solid change, he got more interest then 94.
" 4 strikes in a 15 pitch side, 3 he sailed over the net the rest were balls no where close to the zone."
Given that variable who could disagree? Conversely, if he was anywhere near consistant he’d get the eye-ball over the 84-86 guy. I don’t know Wales, it to me is like this, if you are a 90’s guy and are a solid pitcher you’ll get a good look by D-1, some looks by professional scouts and perhaps a 3-4 year window ro show domination or the ability to get extraordinary hitters out…to get a professional shot, with less speed you will have to go through more steps…say a 6 year window to blast through say from NAIA or less to D-1 to beyond (All rules have exceptions…but I think that generally this is the available pathway). It is extraordinarily rare to see a guy less than 23 get to the bigs, I don’t think it would ever happen to a kid throwing less than 90++.
I’m gonna disagree. I mean velocity is important but I think control and movement are more important. You can throw a pitch 105 m.p.h but if you can’t hit the strike zone, then why even bother throwing it that hard in the first place? If you can locate a pitch then it becomes easier to set up hitters (if you know how to set them up that is) or throw one where they can’t hit as well. And if the ump has a big or small strike zone it becomes easier to adjust to.
Also if you throw a pitch 105 m.p.h and it’s as straight as an arrow then people will be able to hit it better (assuming that the hitter has a nice swing [when I say nice I mean like a “Ted Williams Swing”] and isn’t like a huge upper cut or chop type swing) if a pitch moves a lot then it becomes harder to hit since you need to know where it will be when it crosses the strike zone (or close to the zone) and then you need to make contact.
you need to decide who you are pitching for and what they are looking for. a scout looks for projectability. scouts will project a kid that throws hard with a higher ceiling because velocity is hard to teach. it can happen through maturity (wagoner and oswalt were mid 80s guys entering college and then the strength fairy visited and they got their plus fastballs). there is a substitute for velocity (movement, location and changing speeds) but there is a better chance to develop these by throwing and competing on a daily basis. and if you have velocity, movement, location and change speeds, you are really special. beckett showed this last week. i’m buying the complete game dvds just for beckett’s start when he used a moving live fastball exclusively the first time through, then throws a plus curveball the next time through. that’s not fair. he’s from a different planet right now- just like koufax, ford and hershiser in their prime.
guys that throw hard and can’t throw strikes are frustrating because everyone gets excited about them and are slow to give up on them. guys that can throw strikes with movement, in good spots and change speeds can get people out. if you can do this with a mid 80’s fastball, you’ll get your shot. and if you get people out you’ll move up. you just may need to be patient.
velocity is king. getting people out is the champion.
Couldn’t of said it any better
I’m obessed with velocity. I think you can take someone who throws 92 and teach them the mechanics to throw accurately quicker than you can take someone who throws 86 with location and make them throw harder.