After game arm care

#1

Greeting to all.

Just found this foum and thought I would ask a question or two. First off, my son is 11 year old and is playing both league and travel ball. He plays alot of infield and pitches some as well. His league is going on now, with travel ball starting after the league is done. He plays twice a week, once during the week and once on Saturday.

He has pitched about 5 to 6 innings a week. Four one game and then one or two the following game later in the week. I have not tracked his pitch count, so I cannot tell you what that is. He goes to a facility 2 to 3 times a week and one of those days is strickly pitching mechanics that is being taught be both a former pro player and a college player. I have seen a jump in his velocity, but also a much more relaxed and smooth delivery. He is not complaining of any arm pain, but has said that his arm gets tired in the last inning of the 4 inning game.

He was told to ice the arm after the game, with 10 to 15 minutes on the shoulder and then 10 to 15 mins on the elbow, and to do this twice. After that, before bed he has been told to use IcyHot or something similar and rub it in at the shoulder and elbow to help loosen the tight muscles. Is this the proper way to care for the arm after a game? I am also looking for some arm exercised that he can do on the off days to help with strength and keeping the muscles in good working order.

i played thru high school and organized leagues, but never pitched. My dad told me once that he used Ben Gay after games and it ruined his arm, so I don’t want to do that with my son. I am not one of those parents that think he is going to make it to the big time, but want him to enjoy it as long as he can and be able to play without injury for as long as he can. So any advice would be most appreciated.

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to make sure I got all the info out there.

Thanks in advance for any information.

Dino

#2

Is he sore? If he isn’t then there is no need to treat “sore”. Many players use no ice at all.
At 11 depending on pitch count, particularly if he’s doing this all year it certainly wouldn’t be considered “and pitches some as well”…that is the load of a regular.
You can’t “prepratory treat” and hope for good results. Listen to him, he says it is tired, you might want to dial it back slightly.

Pitching twice in a week and going to a facility where he throws (?) for two of the three days and “works mechs” the third…tells me all you should be doing on his “off” days (Sunday???) is going to a movie, hanging out at the most. Have you told the pro how much pitching load this fella is carrying? This over 20-40 games in a year is more than plenty.

Jaeger has his arm stuff, which includes band work.

http://www.jaegersports.com/home.php?cat=

ASMI (The American Sports Medicine Institute) has recommendations they have out there for kid usage here is a link to their site also…

This their position statement

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/announcements.htm

Steven Ellis the founder, owner and dude who put together this site, also has some excellent pitcher conditioning material which he offers, he also does monthly tips etc.

#3

I have always heard that running posts after pitching will help to promote healing and recovery, one post for every 10 pitches, then if there is discomfort in either the shoulder, arm or elbow then at minimum 20 min on 20 min off of ice for at least 2 sets. I have never really heard of using icy hot post game, use it pre-game to get yourself ready quicker.

#4

[quote=“jdfromfla”]Is he sore? If he isn’t then there is no need to treat “sore”. Many players use no ice at all.
At 11 depending on pitch count, particularly if he’s doing this all year it certainly wouldn’t be considered “and pitches some as well”…that is the load of a regular.
You can’t “prepratory treat” and hope for good results. Listen to him, he says it is tired, you might want to dial it back slightly.

Pitching twice in a week and going to a facility where he throws (?) for two of the three days and “works mechs” the third…tells me all you should be doing on his “off” days (Sunday???) is going to a movie, hanging out at the most. Have you told the pro how much pitching load this fella is carrying? This over 20-40 games in a year is more than plenty.

Jaeger has his arm stuff, which includes band work.

http://www.jaegersports.com/home.php?cat=

ASMI (The American Sports Medicine Institute) has recommendations they have out there for kid usage here is a link to their site also…

This their position statement

http://www.asmi.org/asmiweb/announcements.htm

Steven Ellis the founder, owner and dude who put together this site, also has some excellent pitcher conditioning material which he offers, he also does monthly tips etc.[/quote]

Thanks for the info. No he is not sore, but he has complained of being tired.

Let me try and explain a bit better what his workload is. He plays for a league team twice a week, once on a weekday and then again on Saturday’s. He has pitched 4 innings each of the last two Saturday’s and one or two innings in the game during the week. He goes to a “clubhouse” type place two days a week right now. He works his hitting and fielding one day, and then on Sunday he loves working with a college kid who is a pitcher. It is a half hour “lesson” and they work on anything from pickoffs to changing speeds, to just long toss when the teacher knows he has pitched Saturday. He loves going and really enjoys the tiime with the “big guys”. I will NOT let him throw a curveball right now. With changing speeds and locations he should be able to do all he needs to.

Once his league is done, he then starts a travel team for the rest of the year. He may pitch a game or two, maybe 3 or 4 innings in a weekend for that team, but has been invited to play yet another travel team where they want him to pitch much more.

I guess my real concern is for his league team. They seem to want to pitch him 5 to 6 innings a week, with the bulk of it being 4 in one game. I want to try and get him in a nice routine to be able to save his arm so that he can enjoy the game alot longer than I did due to shoulder and elbow issues. Maybe I am just being overly concerned dad, but I appreciate all the info you have.

Thanks,

Dino

#5

Well you have my utmost respect for that honorable endeavor…be concerned, you are here and now know about ASMI, lots of information to be freely given to those who really care enough to look.

You have control completely now (Later, your son and coaches will take that aspect away), if you don’t like the way the league is playing him…back them off, as I said, tell them to dial it back a notch or two, an 11 yr old shouldn’t be the “stud” pitcher anyway.
If his arm is tired, it’s tired, needs rest…you being the grown up and parent, can tell the league coach, that failing, tell the guy who runs the league…it isn’t like you don’t have a better fall back position anyway.

It sounds like he gets a bunch of enjoyment out of going to the facility and it has manifested some good results. The thing that is advantagious to you is that you are not taking anything as dogma, learning is the very best avenue to assure you reach your goal of facillitating him to a happy and healthy period of time that he’s involved.

Keep it up dad and man I’d give my eye teeth to do it all over just one more time :wink:

#6

I would advise steering clear…you’ve got one travel squad who periodically pitches him, his skill level is going to increase with maturity and experience (And the more valuable stuff he learns from his instructors). When you are told up front he’s going to be pitched more :shock: …particularly at this age, you may just as well go on ASMI and ask Dr. Fleisig for a good ortho referral in your area before you begin because he is right now boarder line over-used (For his age).

There are travel teams out there that are completely irresponsible with their pitchers, they have the mentality that “because of this or that” they know better…“heck when I was a kid…” is often the 1st phrase and then out comes the resume…first…America, the world, isn’t like it was when we were kids…playing outside, unsupervised for a young kid, it just doesnt happen anymore…
How many times does anyone see kids come together, pick teams from going hand over hand on a bat (“Do bottle caps count??”) and playing epic unsupervised games…I haven’t seen it or that behavior in decades…so we are faced with having to approach it differently…I hate it…but kids today only know this way and nothing justifies over-using a kids arm…even if he’s only in it for "fun’ and not his lifes work…shoulder or elbow pain for life is no good option.

#7

Well you have my utmost respect for that honorable endeavor…be concerned, you are here and now know about ASMI, lots of information to be freely given to those who really care enough to look.

You have control completely now (Later, your son and coaches will take that aspect away), if you don’t like the way the league is playing him…back them off, as I said, tell them to dial it back a notch or two, an 11 yr old shouldn’t be the “stud” pitcher anyway.
If his arm is tired, it’s tired, needs rest…you being the grown up and parent, can tell the league coach, that failing, tell the guy who runs the league…it isn’t like you don’t have a better fall back position anyway.

It sounds like he gets a bunch of enjoyment out of going to the facility and it has manifested some good results. The thing that is advantagious to you is that you are not taking anything as dogma, learning is the very best avenue to assure you reach your goal of facillitating him to a happy and healthy period of time that he’s involved.

Keep it up dad and man I’d give my eye teeth to do it all over just one more time :wink:[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words. I look back and loved playing the game and see him having that same love for the game as well. There is so much more info available and ways to keep the arm in shape now and I just want to make sure he plays until it is time for him to stop, not because he had to stop due to injury. I know I cannot protect him all the way, but I can do my best to make sure he is not put in a position where he might get hurt.

Being his dad, I see alot of things that need work. But I have had many folks say that his skills put him in the top 5 or 6 in the league. Me, I don’t see it, but others who know more than I do see something else.

Either way, he was asked by his clubhousepitching coach to play on this travel team, so I am going to guess he will be pretty monitored on how much he pitches. In his league so far, no soreness and he just got tired the first game so I am going to chalk it off as just not being in baseball shape to throw that many innings. But I will keep track of it and keep asking him about his arm and if it gets sore you can bet I am going to tell them to scale back alot. LOL.

As far as the clubhouse he goes to. He really loves it for alot of reasons. He works with the local High School coaches and they give him some great feedback, but even more important, he gets to actually get in and practice and bat with some of the high school and local college players. That is the thing he really digs. He often will come home and say that he worked out with the Shortstop from this team, or pitched with the starting pitcher from this team. His confidence is really over the top. And I have had many of the coaches tell me that not only is he a good player, he is a really good kid, and that to me means the most.

So, thanks for letting me brag a bit about my kid, even though you have no idea who he is. LOL. And thanks for the info. I will be a regular lurker here, seems to be some great info for parents to keep their kids going strong.

Dino

#8

I would advise steering clear…you’ve got one travel squad who periodically pitches him, his skill level is going to increase with maturity and experience (And the more valuable stuff he learns from his instructors). When you are told up front he’s going to be pitched more :shock: …particularly at this age, you may just as well go on ASMI and ask Dr. Fleisig for a good ortho referral in your area before you begin because he is right now boarder line over-used (For his age).

There are travel teams out there that are completely irresponsible with their pitchers, they have the mentality that “because of this or that” they know better…“heck when I was a kid…” is often the 1st phrase and then out comes the resume…first…America, the world, isn’t like it was when we were kids…playing outside, unsupervised for a young kid, it just doesnt happen anymore…
How many times does anyone see kids come together, pick teams from going hand over hand on a bat (“Do bottle caps count??”) and playing epic unsupervised games…I haven’t seen it or that behavior in decades…so we are faced with having to approach it differently…I hate it…but kids today only know this way and nothing justifies over-using a kids arm…even if he’s only in it for "fun’ and not his lifes work…shoulder or elbow pain for life is no good option.[/quote]

Sorry, once again I did not explain myself very well. The travel team he was on last summer, who have asked him to play again on, only pitched him maybe an inning or two in two or three games all summer, so they are not really expecting him to pitch, at least not based on the other kids they have to pitch. So on that team he is more of a position player. Mostly second base and some outfiield. The team he was asked to play on by his clubhouse coach, he would do more pitching, but his league would have already been done with so he would only be pitching for one team. Did I explain that better? LOL. I work graveyards and sometimes when I type this stuff I am half asleep, so when I go back and look at it again, I wonder what the heck I was thinking.

Your comments about pickup games is spot on. These kids today don’t understand how to play a pickup game where you have just a handful of kids and play left field only, or strikeouts, or any of those other games that I used to play until I could not see the ball anymore because it was too dark. I really blame the video game revolution for that. Kid’s don’t have the social skills anymore and parents to do not allow kids to just go to the park and hang out.

And your comment on life pain again is right on. I played high school ball, then moved to adult softball (I was not that good, but loved to play) and the last few years my shoulder was sooo bad that if I tried to throw full speed, I would get a shooting pain down my arm and the next day I could not raise my arm above my head. It sucked, and I had to quit playing because of it. And I can tell you that I miss playing everytime I go by the park and see a softball game going on. Oh well, getting old sucks.

Thanks again,

Dino

#9

It’s better than the alternative. :wink:

I don’t have much to add other than your kid already has the best possible injury prevention specialist on his side: A dad who is willing to learn.

#10

No the “real” truth is pedephelia, and mothers being absolutely pertified at the idea of their child being kidnapped or harmed, the media hypes it to where, no kid anywhere is safe without massive supervison on hand…

I live in the sleepy town of Green Cove Springs, our rec league plays in the middle of town, right across the street from our middle school and one evening (Getting dark) we had just finished practice and as one the coachs I was always one of the last out the gate, well we were putting gear into my vehicle when we see this police officer approach this car…seems some scum bag was doing lewd things and when the officer approached he grabbed for what ended up being a spray can of “something”…this was witnessed by kids and parents…he was perp walked. I found out one of the moms had noticed something and called the law…This isn’t Miami or Tampa…we might have 10,000 residents…that my friend is why kids are at home playing those vids…even latchkey is better than molested or kidnapped.

And Kyle is of course correct on both counts :wink:

#11

No the “real” truth is pedephelia, and mothers being absolutely pertified at the idea of their child being kidnapped or harmed, the media hypes it to where, no kid anywhere is safe without massive supervison on hand…

I live in the sleepy town of Green Cove Springs, our rec league plays in the middle of town, right across the street from our middle school and one evening (Getting dark) we had just finished practice and as one the coachs I was always one of the last out the gate, well we were putting gear into my vehicle when we see this police officer approach this car…seems some scum bag was doing lewd things and when the officer approached he grabbed for what ended up being a spray can of “something”…this was witnessed by kids and parents…he was perp walked. I found out one of the moms had noticed something and called the law…This isn’t Miami or Tampa…we might have 10,000 residents…that my friend is why kids are at home playing those vids…even latchkey is better than molested or kidnapped.

And Kyle is of course correct on both counts :wink:[/quote]

While I do agree that there are some “people” that are out there to do wrong things, I still believe that video games are partly to blame. Even if you don’t want to send your kid to the park unsupervised, how about just playing whiffle ball outside? On my block, when I was growing up, we would always be outside playing. Either football in the street, basketball on somebody’s driveway or just playing whiffle ball or strikeouts. My son goes out and has a teatherball type thing and swings the bat for hours on end, and there are other kids in the neighborhood, but they are never around. I don’t know if it due to the parents not wanting to let their kids out because they cannot watch them or if they have other things going on inside, but I just don’t see kids playing outside the way they used to.

The media has made everybody a bit paranoid as well. When you are bombarded with the bad things in the world, you really get jaded about it. I work in law enforcement as a 911 operator and PD dispatcher, and I have heard all kinds of stories, and I feel that most kidnapping and child abductions are family members who are in a battle and use the kids as a pawn in that battle.

I have coached kids for about 10 years and more often than not they don’t care as much about the game as they do getting home to load up on sugar or chips and play the latest war game. To me, that is where they need to address the situation of teen violence and obesity. But I will agree, that most parents don’t want to let their kids play outside, and that is sad.

And, thanks to Kyle for the kind words. I appreciate it.

#12

Just another example of the “lazification” of America. Why go out and get all sweaty playing baskball in the driveway when you can sit on your bum and slam dunk via LeBron James. It’s a false sense of accomplishment, doing something virtually when I know that I could never do it physically, so why bother putting forth the effort. The virtual world is taking over. As adults, we used to have friends over occassionally to catch up and enjoy each others company. Now we visit via facebook. I could go on and on, but I think I’ll go out and shoot some hoops before my kids games tonight :smiley:

#13

Totally agree with you.

#14

Well, as an update I thought I would just post this. He pitched Saturday morning, Threw 3 innings and about 60 to 65 pitches (I don’t know exactly because I forgot my pitch counter at home, LOL). Gave up 2 unearned runs and walked one. His next game is on Wed night, and if history holds up, he should not be starting that game. Depending on how well the kid who starts throws, he may have to pitch an inning or so, but that should be it. Did not do any long toss with him Sunday, he got a new bat and wanted to try it out so we spent about an hour at his “clubhouse” hitting. No arm pain, no fatigue, no problems so far.

Thanks guys for all the info, and I will be lurking around to give my two cents worth, and believe me, that is about all it is worth.