9y Cant throw correct 4sfb

My 9y old cant throw a correct 4sfb…meaning the rotation of the ball isnt like bottom to top. Ive tried everything but he just cant do it.
He has very good locationand above average velocity so thats not the issue…i just want him to throw correct and prevent any damages later on.

A couple of former triple a pitchers have said not to worry about it and some other instructors say its needs to be adressed before things get ugly.

So what can i do now?
Is it normal because of the size of the hands and all…will it develop eventually…should it already be developed?

Things weve done so far:
all the grips, slots and isolation drills.
it even seems he cant throw it with the elbow in the glove drill.

Where to go from here?
Do i need to worry about it or is this like very common of very uncommon?

tnx

A favorite method of mine to correct this is to put a piece of electrical tape around the axis of the ball (Some use a marker…but I don’t like to ruin balls), this will show him when his hand is not behind the ball (When done correctly the ball won’t wobble or tumble, but present a straight line). He will pick up speed and accuracy when he’s able to keep from getting his hand outside of the ball. The act of getting the hand into that position (Outside of the ball or supinated) adds a bunch of stress to the shoulder and I recommend you address it asap.

I dont think i really understand what you are saying…we use marked balls which tell us how the ball is rotating. But i cant figure out how u solve the problem?-)

One grip key is to be sure he’s splitting the ball in half with the thumb and middle finger. If his hands are small or the thumb is creeping up the side of the ball then proper rotation will be difficult. The line around the ball can help get the feel of proper thumb-middle finger position as well.

Also I’ve found that some kids need to be taught to pronate- that is turn thumb down-palm out after release. Pronation is supposed to be natural but some kids seem to intentionally inhibit the movement.

Because it’s instant feedback, when he is able to throw the ball and the line is stable then his hand is behind the ball, not and it isn’t. the tape needs to run right between his fingers and as jp said the thumb should be under and supportive, releasing the ball properly and the line will look like this depending on arm slot _\l but it will be solid and stable.

Agree with JP and JD.

Start with the grip. Like JP said, make sure your son grips the ball such that the thumb and middle fingers cut the ball in half equally. Make sure he is NOT shifting his grip to one side of the ball and that his thumb is NOT sliding up the side of the ball towards the index finger. If he’s not used to gripping the ball this way, you may want to work on this first - by itself.

Once he’s got the grip figured out, then use the taped/striped/colored ball to check rotation. You may find that by correcting the grip, the spin takes care of itself. If not, then the concern is that he is supinating (i.e. getting his hand outside the ball) instead of staying behind it. And, in that case, my preference would be to work on changing that now instead of letting it go until down the road when it will be more ingrained and harder to change. You might have him try over-pronating as if to throw something between a sinker and screwball to get him to just stay behind the ball. Just keep things within his comfort zone.

Show him the proper grip. Proper throw. But it doesnt need to be adressed now. Theres always time to learn a pitch or to fix one you always threw. If it is working for him let him keep it. Hes only 9, all you have to do is throw strikes.

[quote]I recommend you address it asap.

If it is working for him let him keep it.[/quote]

Feeling right at home already…-)

Been working on it a little today, no sign at all of a top to bottom rotation…lol

[quote=“CoachPaPa”]My 9y old cant throw a correct 4sfb…meaning the rotation of the ball isnt like bottom to top. Ive tried everything but he just cant do it.
He has very good locationand above average velocity so thats not the issue…i just want him to throw correct and prevent any damages later on.
A couple of former triple a pitchers have said not to worry about it and some other instructors say its needs to be adressed before things get ugly.
So what can i do now?
Is it normal because of the size of the hands and all…will it develop eventually…should it already be developed?
Things weve done so far:
all the grips, slots and isolation drills.
it even seems he cant throw it with the elbow in the glove drill.
Where to go from here?
Do i need to worry about it or is this like very common of very uncommon?
tnx[/quote]

Can your son throw a two-seam fastball or cutter?
Does he really need the four-seam fastball?
Is it just this pitch (four-seam) and grip that he can’t get
proper (in this case, top-to-bottom) rotation on or can he not throw other pitchers with proper rotation?
I’ve had problems with my four-seam fastball myself.
It tends to act more like a cutter or sinker (it mainly depends
on the grip, forarm angle, and release).
As JP and Roger said,
it is important that he splits the ball in half with his thumb and middle finger. This will cause the top-to-bottom rotation if releases the ball right.

I believe 9 year olds just need to worry about throwing strikes. Doesnt matter how you throw it. Show him the grip. Let him try it. But let him stick with what he is comfortable with.

If his grip isn’t propper fix it but then leave the rest alone, it sounds like his arm path is probably influencing the rotation of the ball, arm slot might be 11-7 or 10-8 or if throws lower as a side armer etc, this will totally impact the rotation to match the arm angle. Don’t change just to have the ball rotate different, if that is his arm slot then that is his arm slot.

Curious as to why at 9 he throws a 4 seamer anyway … wouldn’t a 2 seam option give him more movement ?

Why wouldn’t he use both, 4 seamer for more accuracy and the 2 seam for more movement.

Well…still no sign of a proper rotation on his 4-seamer.
Will be working on it again after summer camp.

I guess it cant hurt for now and it will develop eventually…at least thats what i hope-)

So did you put some tape around it and if so what does the ball “do”?
If not try it, when a kid can’t control the spin he’s either pronating or supinating (His hand over balances one way or the other, pronating considered the “good”, supination “bad”) either way…to be able to control a baseball the hand or the significant portion of the hand needs to be behind the ball, later when he’s past puberty, he’ll have the dextarity and physical capability to manipulate the ball for movement but now it’s critically important to throw fundementally correctly, supinating stresses the dookie out of both the shoulder and elbow so sooner is gooder old boy.

I really think you need to look at a couple of items.
Where is his arm slot?
Is he throwing with the proper grip?
Is his hand sliding off center at release?
What is the path of the ball?
Is he throwing strikes?

Pitching is always a work in progress. I wouldn’t say at 9 that you could expect exact mechanics. You have plenty of time to fix him. At nine make it’s just as important to make sure he’s enjoying the game.

I guess we need some video, pitching video and another of the rotation with the tape (or I like to blacken 1/2 of a ball with a sharpie) to see the rotation.

IME, young kids never throw with a proper backspin. In fact, really young kids (5-6) often throw natural gyroballs.

My 8-y/o simply cannot grip a baseball with his thumb directly in the middle; his thumb naturally goes on the side of the ball and the ball sits deep in the palm. So check the grip first off; if the grip isn’t right, there’s no way to get proper rotation.

If what you are saying is correct it would imply this am i right?:

If you make the ball small enough it would have to have the proper rotation eventually…it would be an odd sized ball but nevertheless.

I don’t get that but ok??? Biggest thing for us is get the video up!