8th Grader for Review-More Video Added

Sorry guys… I can’t figure out how to embed a Vimeo video in the message…

bretzke (you on the video??)… you have a pretty significant hyperabducion on your pitching arm (elbow gets WAY too high) it could lead to pretty bad shoulder and even elbow problems along the line the elbow should be level with the shoulders if not lower bot not too low you have to find a balance

besides this you have pretty good mechanics and good size for an 8th grader

do you know how fast you throw?

That’s my son Andy from last year.

It’s seems to me like he throws around 55 or 60. A team parent last year said he hit 80 on his radar gun. Looked like one of those hot wheels radar guns. lol

Is the elbow too high when it’s behind him or in front?

That’s my son Andy from last year.

It’s seems to me like he throws around 55 or 60. A team parent last year said he hit 80 on his radar gun. Looked like one of those hot wheels radar guns. lol

Is the elbow too high when it’s behind him or in front?[/quote]

Hahahaha yea ive seen those well it gets high when its behind him if you can pause it on his landing you can clearly see it he actually drops it back to his shoulder level when hes coming around which is why he throws sidearm, if he didnt raise his elbow that much hed have a higher armslot, sidearm isnt bad but how high is elbow gets it id lower that elbow height if i was him…

you should check out www.chrisoleary.com there are alot of tips in his pitching mechanics blog though i sometimes disagree with his explanations as to why things happen, there are great stuff there…

That’s my son Andy from last year.

It’s seems to me like he throws around 55 or 60. A team parent last year said he hit 80 on his radar gun. Looked like one of those hot wheels radar guns. lol

Is the elbow too high when it’s behind him or in front?[/quote]

He’s talking about this:

Mark Prior is one of many pitchers said to have severe and recurring injury due to this. Some other pitchers that are constantly injured and have that elbow up too early include Fransisco Liriano, Kerry Wood, Joel Zumaya, and Aaron Heilman (among others).

On the other hand, it is considered ideal to have the elbow below the shoulder or just barely at the level of the shoulder when the foot plants and the shoulders begin to turn (as seen in the picture below of Greg Maddux). It mainly has to do with timing more than anything. Many pitchers are believed to have had great and long-lasting careers because they share this mechanical detail. Some of these pitchers include Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Jeff Suppan, Dan Harren, Roy Oswalt, among others.

These are some examples of good things:

For more information about proper pitching mechanics, go to
www.chrisoleary.com

first of all, that’s definitely faster than 55 or 60. At least low 70s. Second, I agree with the hyperabduction being a problem. Get it fixed. He looks like he’s got some talent, and if he starts working on this early, it could pay off. Good thing you came to LTP, it’s a great resource.

He was dominant as an 8th grade pitcher. Mechanics changed from game to game. High 3/4 slot one game, sidearm the next.

He had a rash of injuries during football season. I wonder if that contributed to his inconsistencies?

[quote=“ltdan”]He’s talking about this:

[/quote]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. You gave me a novel!

Thanks. You guys are great.

Lefty-

At one of his games last year, we happened to sit next to the opposing pitcher’s parents. The dad was bragging to someone about how his kid threw in the mid 80’s. Travel player, blah, blah, blah.

When Andy came out to pitch in the bottom of the first inning, his first pitch was a 4 seam FB, high and tight. You could hear it sizzle. It sounded like a gunshot when the ball hit the catcher’s mitt. A lady asked the bragging dad how fast he thought Andy threw.

The dad didn’t say a word for the rest of the game.

Sometimes there are interesting games being played in the bleachers too!lmao

A video of your boy, at this age, taken in July of last year…well it’s a great introduction to you and him :smiley:
But likely not very meaningful in a current context given your statement about changing his arm angle constantly and his age. Is he pre-puberty, just into it or raging in the middle? That would be another reason it would be impossible to judge what his current issues may or may not be. He’s at the age when it all starts growing and moving around in there. My advice to you would be to get as much instruction (Professional, collegiate or High School) that emphasizes fundementals and arm health maintenance techniques and conditioning as I could. That is if this is his passion and you want to facillitate his going as far as his talent and passion can take him. The web has great information, filtered through a discerning eye, but nothing replaces a trained eye seeing the intricacies of his motion over time.
Roger on this site is an NPA certified instructor, pm him for a national list of certified instructors (It doesn’t garuntee competance but to me, it says the instructor cares enough to study beyond his personal experience…my sons coach is a ten year mlb veteran and he still studies…it says to me that they know they don’t know it all).

JD-
We started him in a program this summer. You can get a feel for it at this link: The coach who created the video has worked with Andy.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=46HAU0dTW_o

Andy was 6-1, 175# when the video was taken. He is now 6-3, 185#, with size 15 feet and hands as big as bread baskets. Growth spurt?

He broke his pitching arm collarbone in 8th grade preseason football practice. Came back to play and dislocated his left knee cap. When the knee cap subluxated, it also fractured his thigh bone. Lots of PT.

Fast forward to freshman year… Football knee cap dislocation scoring a touchdown. Minor MCL tear. Basketball… Wearing knee brace now, dislocates again, no secondary damage.

It’s like a M.A.S.H. unit at our house.

[quote]Andy was 6-1, 175# when the video was taken. He is now 6-3, 185#, with size 15 feet and hands as big as bread baskets. Growth spurt?

He broke his pitching arm collarbone in 8th grade preseason football practice. Came back to play and dislocated his left knee cap. When the knee cap subluxated, it also fractured his thigh bone. Lots of PT.

Fast forward to freshman year… Football knee cap dislocation scoring a touchdown. Minor MCL tear. Basketball… Wearing knee brace now, dislocates again, no secondary damage.[/quote]

So you can see that the vid is nice but something now is going to help.
Please keep in mind that you can create injury in pitching due to other injuries…so be as careful as you can. He looks strong and that can be a 2 edged sword…and as puberty progresses he’ll get a whole bunch stronger…having efficient mechs and consistancy will be parmount. Keep educating yourself, particularly arm health and conditioning…then lean hard on that. Always remember diet is one of the keys.

[quote=“Bretzke”]They say a picture is worth a thousand words. You gave me a novel!

Thanks. You guys are great.[/quote]

You should know that the “high elbows” thing is nothing more than a theory. Chris O’Leary came up with this theory based on identifying certain patterns. Though he tends to present his theory as fact, there is no proof that “high elbows” was the cause of injuries of pitchers such as Mark Prior.

JD-
For giggles and grins, Andy tried out for a 16U travel team up here in Michigan as a pitcher.

He made the team!

They are playing 4 tournaments here in Michigan and the WWBA National Championships in Georgia this summer.

Didn’t your Andy do the WBBA Nationals tourney? How was it?

[quote=“Roger”][quote=“Bretzke”]They say a picture is worth a thousand words. You gave me a novel!

Thanks. You guys are great.[/quote]

You should know that the “high elbows” thing is nothing more than a theory. Chris O’Leary came up with this theory based on identifying certain patterns. Though he tends to present his theory as fact, there is no proof that “high elbows” was the cause of injuries of pitchers such as Mark Prior.[/quote]

Roger-

I’ve always tried to help my son when he asked for advice in his sports pursuits. Been pretty successful until now. This whole pitching thing is pretty frustrating.

Nobody seems able to agree on much of anything. There doesn’t seem to be any real consensus on the “perfect” pitching approach.

Dr. Marshall vs Dick Mills vs Tom House, etc.

It’s no wonder many baseball coaches throw up their hands and claim that pitching is “all about genetics”.

[quote]JD-
For giggles and grins, Andy tried out for a 16U travel team up here in Michigan as a pitcher.

He made the team!

They are playing 4 tournaments here in Michigan and the WWBA National Championships in Georgia this summer.

Didn’t your Andy do the WBBA Nationals tourney? How was it?[/quote]

It was a tremendous opportunity to pitch against whole line-ups filled with A numba 1 hitters, the facilities they use in Atl are just first rate, college fields, great support…he loved it, we loved it…had outstanding memories that will always be there…of course he won (Threw a CG over an Indiana squad made up of an NAIA div 1 WS champ players), so that helps :smiley: but the experience itself was so tremendous that even if you lost it was worth it. We were able to slide in a trip to Six Flags for him and his mom and then when I finally made it up there we got to do some real quality hanging out together. Saw some of the best prospects from around the country…everywhere was great baseball…obviously I was in heaven 8)

I’d disagree with this…or actually would modify it, local, personal and professional coaches seldom if ever bring up these guys other than by way of illustrating examples. They teach a kid, to my experience, based on what a kid presents, they then address fundemental throwing, modifying if necessary and then refining from there. The guru controversy is really a web phenominon. Interesting in nature via theory but does it have application to your boys development? I’d say not if you are with him more than superficially…our art at higher levels is beyond a doubt a holistic endeavor, if you are not concentrating on every aspect…mechs, conditioning, strategy, approach, prescence…you will run up against that failure to prepare…so funky mechs means increased injury risk, lack of conditioning same thing, don’t prepare and I assure you, you will run up against those who are…that is where they’ll reach their plateau and come to a moment of decision, “will I make the sacrifice to overcome “A”,“B” or “C” and continue on my path or will I sell shoes”?

u dont really use ur legs enough and u throw like mark prior and he’s always hurt cuz he throws like that and u slow ur arm before u pitch, it should b a fluid motion

Big kid, great frame. Would love to see him get more out of his delivery. Talk to him about traveling with his hips and staying closed longer. He really stands up and delivers early. I think this is why you see some hyperabduction, his arm is catching up to his opening hips. Some towel drill work (NPA style) would have some pretty quick results I think.

I’d talk to him about getting some shoulder tilt to help get the elbow down in the back and leverage himself a little bit. He stays on the x plane more than I would prefer. I kid I’ve worked with that is with the Twins now told me the first thing the Twins did with him was tilt his shoulders as he made his stride.

Andrew-
The last thing the kid needs is another injury! I’ll pass on your advice.