12yr working With Dusty Delso

He will turn 13 in Dec.

Nice mechs! One suggestion: this pitcher’s landing foot lands waaay “open.” Notice how his landing foot’s toes point toward what is essentially the first base dugout upon landing? I’d like to see him landing “slightly closed” (landing foot’s toes pointing the right-hander’s batter’s box) or toes pointing “directly to the target” (his catcher).

To work on it, draw a straight line down the center half of the rubber towards home plate (looks like there’s duct tape on this mound) and have him go through his delivery without throwing the ball, to get a feel for his foot landing on the straight line, toes pointing the target or slightly closed. He should practice this 50 times, 100 times a day to get it down, because it’ll take time to break this habit.

yep mr steve is dead on. his foot is hitting the ground so far open i can’t see how he does that. i’ve never seen him do that when we are working. go back to landing on the inside edge of the ball of the foot when his stride foot lands. he is i think he is landing on his heel and rolling his foot out on his heel as he throws. this would explain the next big thing he needs to fix.

he is throwing the ball way too early. he never gets over his stride leg knee with his upper body. this needs to happen before he throws the baseball. he is simply tilting striding and spinning. there is no agressive forward shift of the weight before he throws th ball.

i’l bet his velocity and location are down and he is getting tender in the front of his shoulder. simple fixes, just needs to do it.

dylan just had a lesson with jim walton, a 40 year veteran of scouting and major league baseball. made a ton of sense in 45 minutes. he teaches the old school delivery and i was quite impressed. i’ll show you what he said next time we get together.

That kid must love Tim Lincecum

Looks like an athletic kid.

One other thing - it’s hard to field your position with your back facing the batter!

he is landing so far open because of where he starts on the rubber. his body is trying to comepensate for standing far right and having to come open to be square with the catchers target. since his back foot drag line is straight, i would suggest starting him right in the middle of the rubber.

One other thing - it’s hard to field your position with your back facing the batter!

If one slows his rotation he looses velocity so when they slow to field they are not throwing as hardas they can.

RightyRinger"]he is landing so far open because of where he starts on the rubber. his body is trying to comepensate for standing far right and having to come open to be square with the catchers target. since his back foot drag line is straight, i would suggest starting him right in the middle of the rubber.

You will have to search for it but a few months ago there was a thread on here about the angle that the pitcher gains by sliding to the right or to the left if you look he still does not throw across his body to cause the compensation. The foot thing is rotation into foot plant either at the hip or the knee.

[quote=“tmcgregor”]One other thing - it’s hard to field your position with your back facing the batter!

If one slows his rotation he looses velocity so when they slow to field they are not throwing as hardas they can.[/quote]

There’s more than one possible cause for ending up facing away from the batter. I agree you don’t want to slow the rotation. But you also don’t want to rotate early and end up over-rotated. That’s not a positional issue - it’s a timing issue. I think your son can stay closed longer and rotate later by getting the arms to equal and opposite at front foot plant. Currently, he vacates the equal and opposite position with his glove arm before the front foot plants.

By the way, I believe the front foot angle as well as the lower leg angle is set as necessary to support the body’s weight in the direction it’s moving. In your son’s case, he seems to get his upper half moving to the glove side and that’s why his foot opens up, his lower leg tilts to the glove side and his knee points to the glove side. Early rotation may also contribute.

It looks like he stiffens his knee which I’m pretty sure can hurt the knee or put stress on the arm.

Then again I am 13.

tmcgregor, he is overcompensating, look what his head is doing. it is falling off to the side. this causes him to have posture issues which robs him of control. this could also be dangerous to the health of his arm

Go to SETPRO.com and check out Teach Your Son To Throw The $#@!! Out Of The Ball This is great stuff from Paul Nyman . What he is doing is the shoulders are turning to much and the hips are not leading enough so he is pushing the ball this is also causing him to release the ball to early (not in front) the head is clearing the way for rotation. Thanks for all of your inputs.

What happened to these mechanics:

I agree with this assessment. I think it is because he drops the glove early and rotates early. The glove dropping early steals the timing necessary to stay closed longer and let the body track forward further.

Nice stuff here for a 13 year old!!

[quote=“dusty delso”]he never gets over his stride leg knee with his upper body. this needs to happen before he throws the baseball. he is simply tilting striding and spinning. there is no agressive forward shift of the weight before he throws th ball.[/quote]I agree completely with this assessment. From looking at the side view, I think he’s reaching with the front foot a bit and leaning back slightly rather than focusing on weight shift through moving the centre of gravity toward the target. It’s a dynamic between those things. The leaning back isn’t severe by itself but, combined with the foot reaching, the upper body can’t really get up onto the front foot effectively.

Also, I do not believe that he’s “landing open”. His “foot” is open when he lands but the spot where he lands is in line. I suggest that the foot issue is part and parcel of what I mentioned in the paragraph above.

Could it be that some of the issues discussed here would be solved if his mental focus was more on sideways c.o.g. movement toward the target, as opposed to leaning back the upper body and reaching with the front foot. It’s a different imagery for what the stride is.

The last thing I’ll mention is the counter rotation. Is the foot spinning issue related to an attempt to compensate for that?

All in all, though, athletic kid with lots of potential.

How often do we accept what is being said simply because we’ve heard it before and therefore the “assumption” is that it must be of value??

Why does the pitcher’s foot need to be slightly closed upon landing?

Is he really not getting over his front leg to throw the baseball? What is the definition of spinning and why is it bad? What’s the definition (measure) of “full weight shift of the weight” vs “striding and spending”? What’s the difference between “striding and spinning” and what Mariano Rivera’s doing in the clip?

What is the definition of “too early”, i.e. how do you qualify/quantify it? What is the measure of “let the body track forward further” in terms of effectively throwing the baseball?

So many “wives tales” and so few supportable facts…

[quote=“coachxj”]

Why does the pitcher’s foot need to be slightly closed upon landing?[/quote]

Paul, why should it be “open” the way this kid is planting his foot? Is that really what you teach?

The impression here is that you are completely satisfied by what is presented…is that the case? If that is the case then are you saying that the “new” mechanics are better than the ones shown in xv’s vid?
Also I think in response to [quote]What’s the definition (measure) of “full weight shift of the weight” vs “striding and spending”? [/quote]
DM’s response seemed to address it, was it not complete enough?
I guess what I’m poorly trying to ask is; Is your problem with the commentary that it isn’t supported with technical definition or just that you feel the commentary isn’t qualified as far as the input given? Or do you feel there is no need for adjustment/refinement?

What I teach is based upon what I believe to be consistent with the biomechanics of strong a baseball with maximum efficiency and maximum results. I learned a long time ago that there is no such thing as “pitching mechanics”. There IS such a thing as throwing biomechanics, something that very few people really understand.

But pitching biomechanics unto itself is not very valuable unless you know something about how the body acquires movement skills i.e. greatest return for time invested (motor learning and control).

That being said I view the throwing process as a systems problem and do not believe you can separate one part from the whole and that what this pitcher is doing today (how he’s using his body, which includes the arm, to throw the baseball) is not necessarily how he will throw the baseball a year or two or three years from now. And that there is every possibility that what he is doing today is a necessary part of the evolution process.

The point being is there are no absolutes regarding close front foot or open front foot as you can find examples of successful pitchers who exhibit both and also you can find major-league pitchers who have actually changed as their career has evolved.

With respect to any other questions, perhaps this post that I made in the SETPRO private forum (tmcgregor as any one who is serious about leaving no stone unturned in the pursuit of excellence is also a subscriber to the SETPRO forum) will answer some of those questions.

[quote]I like just about everything in the delivery.

The front leg is a possible issue i.e. stability because it’s opened up so much in the knee almost looks like it’s drifting toward first base.

That being said I can remember looking at Tim Hudson’s delivery several years ago and marveling at how open his front leg was, hips were at foot plant, yet how closed off his shoulders were i.e. the differential between hips and shoulders.

99% of the world doesn’t have a clue in terms of the terms that they use such as “spinning”.

Regarding spinning.

Spinning is when there is virtually no differential between upper and lower body.

In your sons case there is almost 90° of differential between upper body and lower body at foot plant. This is just about as much as you can possibly get.

The danger of too much differential is that you’ll potentially go past the point of maximum strength in terms of the length of the muscles. This is why for many pitchers the front foot being slightly closed is a value because it creates a relationship between the lower and upper body that allows for maximum force production over the distance of rotation of the upper torso. it is also an indication for a lot of pitchers that they are not spinning i.e. there is segmentation/differential between upper and lower body.

As stated previously the danger of opening up the lower body too much i.e. creating to greater differential is that stretch the muscles that connect from the lower body to upper body passed the point of their maximum strength and therefore cannot produce for us as effectively and violently to rotate the upper torso.

I don’t think this is a problem with your son.

Your son is definitely not spinning.

Also I took a quick look at the side by sides of the clip of him side by side with Rivera and the most recent clip. As a measure I use as a reference point that throwing shoulder with respect to the front knee at the release of the ball. There is no difference in the two clips i.e. he’s releasing the ball at the same point with respect to the front leg/front knee. So for those who were happy that he was getting extension in the clip side by side with Rivera they should be happy with what he’s doing now because is virtually no difference.

What I did see that was interesting is the amount of “drag” of his posting foot as he’s throwing the ball. This to me is a reaction to the amount of rotation that he’s trying to create with his body and unless further investigation says otherwise I think it’s a good thing.

I doubt that the concept of getting extension toward home plate as being critical to throwing a baseball will ever go away in my lifetime. You can only extend as far as the rotational axis of the upper torso will allow you to expand and still be able to throw strikes.

In other words if you get too far forward you cannot continue to rotate and therefore must end up pushing the baseball. There is an optimum point which is determined by the geometry of the rotation of the upper torso. I haven’t taken a lot of time to study that point and a lot of pitches but my belief is its approximately when the throwing shoulder is over the front knee ( has gone as far forward as the front knee). Again how much for extension is driven by the geometry of rotation of the upper torso, i.e allowing the compound pendulum to do its thing.

And last but not least experimentation i.e. trial and error is the name of the game in terms of finding what the body needs to do to maximally throw the baseball. Attempts to “finalize” a delivery according to some pre-determined “picture” of what the delivery should look like is foolish and a tragic mistake my opinion.

As long as the basic elements of throwing our present and those basic elements are tempo, rotation, connection and whip, specific variations such as how much the front foot or front knee are open are often simply part of the learning process. They will either be retained or discarded depending upon whether they assist or detract from achieving the throwing goals.

And above all it’s the THROWING GOALS that determine how the body throws the baseball.

The bottom line being that well-meaning people are very dangerous with respect to the advice that they give. Yours truly included…[/quote]

I agree with your “way points” belief.
As to the Set Pro forum I think you got my questions covered…
I’d like to thank you for your civil, productive and enlightening input…Nice touch with the humility at the end…