# 12-6 slider

there was this guy on tv on the redsox game he talked about a 12-6 slider anybody have ideas a 12-6 slider will be killer

prolly killer on the elbow too

12-6 slider? Wouldn’t that be a curveball?

12-6 simply means it breaks straight down, even if that means 1, 2, or 10 inches…and you must also realize that a breaking ball’s a breaking ball…sorry to go yogi on ya

Maby they mean a sharp 12-6 curve. So basically a 12-6 curve that isn’t offspeed.

They call it a slider probably because it has more speed on it. ex) K-rod throws a 12-6 breaking ball (slider) in the low 80’s. Barry Zito throws a 12-6 breaking ball (curve) low 70’s high 60’s

I saw that game. The pitcher was Craig Hansen. I just went to look at the archive video at MLB.com and they showed a slow motion of his pitch. It was actually a curveball from looking at how he released it. His fingers were on the side of the ball, rather than slightly behind it. This tells me it’s a curveball and not a slider. You can call it a power curve.

I will put up a GIF of it later.

Oh, and for the 999th time, K-Rod throws a power curve, not a slider. A curveball is a curveball no matter how fast or slow it is. A slider is a slider no matter how slow it is. A fastball is a fastball no matter how slow it is.

Yuhh, agree.

There’s a difference between a slider and a curveball, but without a slo-mo clip it’s hard to say what the guy is throwing. It all depends on the eye of who’s watching…
You see a lot more sliders at 83+ mph than curveballs, so no wonder someone can get mistaken when seen a 12-6, 80+ pitch.

But yuh, also agree on the fact that a 12-6 slider would be a killer one

Now that we got into this 12-6 slider thingy, I can’t resist posting this. Wether it’s a gyro, slider, cutter, it’s a genuine 12-6, high speed pitch which is definetly not a curve. You call what the heck Dice-K throws in this video…

That grip looks like a slider but its hard to tell and ive heard that his sliders turn into gyro balls by accident sometimes

acts like a splitter almost but with a fastball-ish grip

Sinker.

Hose

Sinker.

Hose[/quote]

I was thinking sinker too.

it says 145 km/h which works out at just over 90 mph so its definately a sinker as its not a splitter grip

Yes the guy is named Craig Hansen that you speak of, I’m a diehard Redsox fan so I’ve seen him and his up and down antics since hes been drafted. Guy who can go out one day throwing 97 with that breaking pitch of his and look like the next Joe Nathan, and then go out the next day with nothing.

And btw, that pitch is not a curveball it is a legit slider. I’ve seen the super slomo of it many times, he gets on the side of it and you can clearly see the dot on the front and back of the ball. Idk how he does it, its a very unique break he is able to acheive and it is indeed nasty. I wouldn’t say its absolutely 12-6, but it does have a much more vertical break than horizontal and defintely follows more of a traditional curve break path. But yea, its a slider

The great Leo Mazzone says that he’s never taught a curveball or a slider or anything like that, just a quality breaking pitch.

Personally, if it had to be categorized as one or the other (though I have no idea why it would have to be) my personal take is this. A “slider” is supposed to slide, laterally, thus the name, “slider.” A true slider wouldn’t have vertical movement, just lateral. A curve is supposed to curve, vertically. A true curve would be one that’s 12-6, 11-5, When the ball is changing in 2 plains, vertically and laterally, than I’d say by definition it should actually be called a slurve. I think most pitchers throw a breaking pitch that is curving down and sliding laterally, so if it had to be categorized, I’d say most pitchers actually throw a slurve.

In the 12-6 case, I don’t care how you hold it, sliders and curveballs aren’t called what they are because of the grip in which they’re thrown with but rather by the movement of the ball. A ball going straight down, 12-6, isn’t sliding at all, its a curveball. If one of the announcers called it a slider I just think he used the wrong word. I forever hear announcers and just people in general calling the same breaking pitch by different names.

Regardless of everything I just said, I still agree with Leo’s point, you don’t throw a curve or a slider, you throw a breaking pitch with good 12-6 action, or a breaking pitch that slides away from the hitter. You can have a hard breaking pitch, or a slow breaking pitch, but no matter what it does, its a breaking pitch. Now wouldn’t that make life much easier? I think so.

And that’s my 2 cents. :lol:

I don’t go by what the announcers blather about anyway. Seems like I disagree with them about 80% of the time on what kind of pitch it is.

Hose

[quote=“velocityaddict”]The great Leo Mazzone says that he’s never taught a curveball or a slider or anything like that, just a quality breaking pitch.

Personally, if it had to be categorized as one or the other (though I have no idea why it would have to be) my personal take is this. A “slider” is supposed to slide, laterally, thus the name, “slider.” A true slider wouldn’t have vertical movement, just lateral. A curve is supposed to curve, vertically. A true curve would be one that’s 12-6, 11-5, When the ball is changing in 2 plains, vertically and laterally, than I’d say by definition it should actually be called a slurve. I think most pitchers throw a breaking pitch that is curving down and sliding laterally, so if it had to be categorized, I’d say most pitchers actually throw a slurve.

In the 12-6 case, I don’t care how you hold it, sliders and curveballs aren’t called what they are because of the grip in which they’re thrown with but rather by the movement of the ball. A ball going straight down, 12-6, isn’t sliding at all, its a curveball. If one of the announcers called it a slider I just think he used the wrong word. I forever hear announcers and just people in general calling the same breaking pitch by different names.

Regardless of everything I just said, I still agree with Leo’s point, you don’t throw a curve or a slider, you throw a breaking pitch with good 12-6 action, or a breaking pitch that slides away from the hitter. You can have a hard breaking pitch, or a slow breaking pitch, but no matter what it does, its a breaking pitch. Now wouldn’t that make life much easier? I think so.

And that’s my 2 cents. :lol:[/quote]

Well I agree that you do have a point, there aren’t that many true curves in the game anymore, I think that a pitches trajectory is more relative to release point, arm slot, ect… I mean there is one thing that relates to both varieties of breaking pitches. Sliders have an offcenter spin, curves are more top to bottom.

I throw a slider by putting pressure on my middle finger in the right side of the ball at the bottom of the horsesho and my thumb on the left side bottom lace(hard to explain in words). I push my middle finger down when i throw it, kind of like a curve, but more like a slider. It has a 12-6 movement and is slower than my sweeping curveball. It is more like a splitter for 0-2 with a big drop.

Whatever you want to call it, if you’re getting the batters out with it you have a good breaking pitch. Continue to use it. 8)