10 yr old vid


#1

So here’s a vid of the kid. He’s been taking lessons for the first time this year and is just finished with his fourth one. His coach says it takes most kids about 8-10 secessions to really start catching on. He says he sees no major problems, he opens up with the hips and shoulders a little, falls towards first sometimes, stuff like that, nothing major. I and my son really like the guy, as a lot of parents do. But I figured what the hey, can’t hurt for others to take a look. Thanks


#2

the foot lands closed. and not just a little closed. He is throwing it like an infielder, slinging the side arm action. thats Terrible imo.


#3

Yeah I noticed the foot also, asked the coach about it. I assume he has a certain order in which he deals with things and it’s just not the foots turn yet.

As to the arm, it really seems to fulcuate right now. Most times it’s higher than that, but still 3/4 at best. His coach seems more concerned with what his wrist and fingers are doing, that he has a tendency to let them slide down under the ball.

I was really on him last year to get the arm up, that would frusterate the hell out of him, kill his control, and within a few pitches he was complaining about his shoulder hurting. So given that, and with some of the discussions I’ve read here concerning arm slot I’ve decided to let nature take it’s course.

It’s interesting in a way. His travel team coach uses him in left field mostly, and as such would like to see him more over the top. But because he needs pitchers, and because of his ball speed would like to see him pitch also. At rec ball, summer and fall, his teams use him at ss and third, and when the ball is hit to him it’s at first before you know it. So what is one to do…


#4

Not only is the foot really closed but he’s striding really far out to his left. He’s only 10 though so give him time to develop proper mechanics don’t try to rush him into anything.


#5

He need to put the ball in to “high guard” then throw. when the ball is up the elbow is behind teh ball. put it in high guard, u can show ball to 2nd base just to start, then adjust it to 3rd base to make it more comfortalbe. show to 2nd exagerates the motion. get a side view of him up,.


#6

I’ll try to get one up, but last weekend his coach taped him and broke it down frame by frame. At throwing position his arm is up and behind the head. Once he starts forward to landing his arm/elbow look good until at some point the arm breaks down and comes over the side/3/4. He said he’s not really sure what’s going on, stated it might be that he’s generating enough torque through the body/hips that the arm may not be strong enough and is breaking down. He also stated that his stride may be a little to long, but I can’t remember if that had anything to do with arm position.

The kid is hitting 60 mph, with 80% being 53-56.


#7

Very nice velocity for a 10 year old.

He is not landing closed, he might be a bit open. He is standing straight up when he throws.

I would focus on getting him to bend at the waist on follow thru for starters.

Ed


#8

[quote=“oldman”]Very nice velocity for a 10 year old.

He is not landing closed, he might be a bit open. He is standing straight up when he throws.

I would focus on getting him to bend at the waist on follow thru for starters.

Ed[/quote]

Yes, his coach has said he’s slightly open at the hips and shoulders but not terribly so.

He’s also starting to plant the seed about him standing straight up.

But his main concern seems to be, at this point, getting him to focus on what he’s doing about his fingers/wrist and not letting the ball come over his fingers. He tends to miss high right with an odd spin on the ball.

Thanks for the comments everyone.


#9

This is poor advice. The “high cocked” or “high guard” position that you are talking about happens a lot faster and a lot later than you think. It is a result of external rotation in the throwing motion and not a position we should ever “place” our pitcher’s in. Getting the ball up too fast can cause timing problems that currently don’t exist with this youngster.


#10

I’m surprised the first thing this coach didn’t correct was this kid’s direction. He is striding open, and it appears that it’s by a fairly significant amount. (atleast 4-6 inches) IMO, direction is important for young kids and their development. I also believe this can lead to him getting under the baseball. Get that stride straight first!


#11

SomeBaseballDad,

Congrats! It looks like you have a pretty good athlete on your hands. Enjoy the ride.

Here’s what I would consider changing.

  1. Balance at step back: When he begins his motion with his step back his head goes with his foot which creates balance problems early that can snowball further down the mound.

    The Fix: Try to get him to step back with his left foot but keep his head over his post foot. You might try telling him to just move his foot and keep the rest of his body still.

  2. Posture at leg lift: Right now his leg lift is part of a “rocking back” motion that pushes his head to the first base side of his post leg. Again this is something that can play havoc with balance, but it also puts him in a poor posture very early in the delivery.

    The Fix: I would work on this out of the stretch position. Have him get in an athletic stance (I have some kids simulate their batting stance) in the stretch position. Get his knees bent with a slight forward tilt at the hips. Now have him “pre-load” his weight on his post leg. Get his arms out the side in an “opposite and equal” position as he does in his normal delivery. Now with his weight already loaded back just have him bring his front knee to his back shoulder. Let him do it three times, keeping the weight on the back leg, and then deliver the baseball on the last one (I believe JD calls this drill “toe touches”).

  3. Front side at foot plant: You’ll really want to figure out a way to get that lower body to open properly. It can lead to a lot of different problems with command and velocity as well as injury risk to the knee and throwing arm.

    The Fix: I would work on this away from a mound for starters. Just get him to begin to understand the feeling of standing sideways and steping straight. Show him what it looks like to pop that him and knee joint open just prior to release. I will forewarn you that this will likely be a very difficult fix. I worked with a kid with the same problem and after 8 sessions we made a lot of progress but it still isn’t quite there. Be patient, he’ll get there.

Here’s what I wouldn’t change:

 [b]His arm slot:[/b] You're son has a very loose and fluid arm action. This is something that can't be taught but can certainly be untaught. IMO, if you try to get him to change his arm slot you will rob him of this and take away his natural athleticism. I would like to see a side view of his arm action, but from what I can see he is pretty solid in all the areas that matter. The dude pictured below did pretty well for himself with a very similar arm slot. He would be a good guide for you. From what I can tell this pic sequence is very similar to your sons arm action. The picture at release is exactly what you should be looking for. Perfect posture! The follow through pic is also very significant. Notice how far he gets out over his front foot and gets his chest to his knee. This will also be very important for your son. If you see him start to stand up and spin without getting that extension over the front foot, stop him immediately and get him straightened out. That is when side armers really open their elbow up for injury.




Here’s what I would caution you about:

 [b]"It will probably take 8-10 lessons to start catching on":[/b] I don't know who you are working with, but this seems like an unrealistic blanket assumption about a kid who is pretty athletic and is doing way more things right than he is wrong. In my experience some kids "get it" after two lessons, some kids don't get it for 10 lessons, but if their kid isn't even "catching on" after 10 lessons it's probably best to have them find an instrument that they enjoy playing.

#12

your guy throws from a low arm slot. if he throws from a low arm slot striding slightly open is not a bad thing. you will want to look at video clips of walter johnson who threw 100+ from lower than a horizontal arm slot, and pedro martinez who throws a low 3/4. if you decide on te pedro arm slot you do need to move the stride more toward the plate.

i don’t know if i would raise his arm slot. if that is not comfortable to him it could be a problem.

if you decide to throw like walter johnson (which i think is a great idea) you will ned to get more counter rotation in the shoulders. you will be slinging the ball. if you can do this with velocity you will get great movement.

keep us posted.


#13

Good decision.

I don’t consider anything wrong with your son’s arm slot - certainly don’t think anything is breaking down with the arm.

I seriously doubt your son’s stride is too long. While it’s hard to tell from a front view, the small bend in your son’s front leg at foot plant tells me he could/should be striding further - especially since his back foot lifts off the ground instead of dragging.

The foot position is closed off - it is pointing to the throwing arm side. The plant location is open - it is to the glove side of a line drawn from the middle of the back foot to home plate.

I would consider the finish more of a result than something you actively try to do. A bit more momentum might be in order to produce the desired result.

It’s not clear to me what point of the delivery you’re talking about but I can’t think of any point in the delivery where I’d want your son to stand straight up.

I agree with HasBeen’s suggestions regarding posture and balance and stride direction.


#14

>It’s not clear to me what point of the delivery you’re talking about but I can’t think of any point in the delivery where I’d want your son to stand straight up. <

Sorry, didn’t mean to mislead you. The coach is pointing out that he’s standing straight up, and that that’s not good forum.


#15

Ok. I agree with that.


#16

BTW

Thanks for the comments everyone, I’ll try to get a side view up soon.


#17

[quote=“oldman”]Very nice velocity for a 10 year old.

He is not landing closed, he might be a bit open. He is standing straight up when he throws.

I would focus on getting him to bend at the waist on follow thru for starters.

Ed[/quote]
It’s not that his body is actually landing closed but that his foot is closed, look at the position of it when he lands.


#18

HasBeen and Roger - Once again - beautiful diagnosis! I hope you guys don’t ever drop off this site!


#19

Thanks, man!


#20

What a great site. I’ve been lurking for a few days now and only wish I had found this site sooner. Your post compelled me to register, so I could reply, because looking at the video of your son was like looking at my son all over again. You don’t mention what other position your son plays, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say he probably plays an infield position with the exception of 1st. Another poster was spot on when he said he said your son is pitching the ball like an infielder would throw. Actually, it’s a mixture of the two. To be successful, it is important that you son understand and learn the difference of the two. This was my struggle.

Here is what my son would do, which I see your son doing as well. 1)Reverse rotating the shoulders to much. This caused him to start off with poor balance and posture, leading to poor timing and rushing his throws. 2)Not keeping enough weight back while striding, creating a lack of hip and shoulder seperation while flying open. Allowing his upper body weight to fall forward during the stride did not allow for him to transfer weight during the throwing motion. This is an absolute for throwing with momentum and getting out in front. 3)Landing with the GS foot open and the foot itself in a closed position. This limits hip rotation, which causes the shoulder to slow down to quickly and to soon, creating recoil in the arm. Check for yourself. It’s a lot easier to throw across your body with the GS foot pointing straight forward vs in a closed position. And it’s critical that a pitcher decelerate his arm across the front of his body. With this fault, the tendency is to finish stepping to the PAS vs over the GS knee as one should. This is the main thing that caused my son to constantly throw high and to the right.

This is what I did with my son. I stopped him from reverse rotating his shoulders and made him focus on keeping them aligned with his target. I made sure he understood that the floot plant and having the throwing arm in a cocked position must come at the same instance with the torso still in a closed position. Having him use a pendulum swing out of the glove and stiffen his GS arm out in front of him helped with this. I made sure when striding that he bent and dropped a little with the back knee, allowing him to keep most of his weight back while only shifting what was required for getting the stride out and landing in a balanced position. Form there, the rest of the weight is transfered during the throwing process. Allowing him to throw his chest out over his GS knee. The momentum pulls his backside foot forward and allows him to get up and finish over the GS leg with his arm decelerating across the front of his body.

It has been a trying process, but the result is becoming impressive. He is 15 and pitching in H.S. now and is doing quite well. So far in the young season, with 14 innings pitched, he has allowed only 2 runs. He averages a strikeout per inning with an extra here and there. But he is till a work in progress, as he is giving to many walks. Don’t be in a hurry with your son, it takes time. He is still young. Stick with the basics for now. Over time he will begin to develop his own style. Over time my son has naturally extended has stride percentage and is even doin a little reverse rotation of the shoulders for added velocity. The difference is, now he knows he must maintain good balance and posture with good control.