Steroids

[jdfromfla]

If you look at the guys who got caught as pitchers you'll notice the vast majority were coming back from injury so muscle mass isn't the point.
I can think of a couple..Ishmail Valdez and Pettite come to mind, they had injuries that under most circumstances it would be curtains, this is where I believe the danger for steroid usage as a pitcher. Now in college/JUCO unreal numbers of guys juice because scouts have gotten to the point where if you aren't huge you get looked over unless your name is Timmy L...let me tell you it is obvious. It's also very obvious the guys who don't and those guys get a lot of grief.
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So what? You prove them wrong

[Roger]

Year before last when I certified with the NPA, there was a sports medicine guy going through the cert. to learn about things like proper mechanics from the NPA's point of view. I had lunch with him one day and the topic of steroids came up. He described a number of side effects from steroids and I have to say I had never heard of them before. I'm not questioning him. Rather I'm pointing out that the general public probably knows very little about what steroids can do. For example, did you know that steroids can decrease blood flow to the femural head in the hip causing it to deteriorate possibly leading to hip replacement surgery?

It's tough to put a price on good health.

[FSTBLLTHRWER]

You would notice a decrease in strength and size after the cycle, but still you would be far bigger and stronger than when you started.

And it seems everyones been brainwashed here into thinking that steroids are one of the worst threats to our society like the tv would have you believe. In reality, a smart and balanced cycle has been shown to only have mild-moderate side effects, all of which are reversible after you cycle off. Long term, who knows? I'll tell you, none of you do, because nobody knows, the studies haven't been done because its such a highly regulated drug.

Now I'm not on the side of steroids, but I do know there is a lot of false information out there. One thing I am sure of though is that AAS are terrible for a teens body, it can shut down your natural testosterone production, which is a long term, non-reversible side effect...

So if any teens on here are thinking of cycling, think again. But don't go around citing all these long term health issues associated with steroids, because they've never been documented.

[Dino]

One of the worst things about the internet is its inherent weakness in providing credentials. Legitimate sources have no problem citing their education, research and expertise but those same legitimate sources also don't give their valuable knowledge away either. So when you get advice on the internet, it usually comes in the anonymous form. When you can verify the source as legit......then its like finding a little nugget of gold.

Internet advice is like a confidential informant. They usually come with alot of baggage so you have to confirm everything they say with your own research or independent evidence. It's called corroborated evidence.

Steroid advice is a perfect example.
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Greatest RHP:Bob Feller

[jdfromfla]

[wwRHP]

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear?s=pager&pageNo=1

343 pages of everything you could possibly want to know about steroids, from guys who probably know what they are talking about. Don't treat that forum like the gospel though, as Dino said you can't really tell if any of them actually know what they are saying.

And as the previous posts say, make your own decision about anabolic steroids. I've made mine.
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Sophmore/6'3/175lbs/Varsity Pitcher
"TOMMOROW IS TOO LATE"

[Steven Ellis]

Excellent info, JD!

[Coach Baker]

All of the foregoing has been really helpful and informative for those who plan to make this sport a serious part of your life and the life of those around you. Ok, enough said.

Now lets look at the other side of the coin ... a side that players, parents, AD's and others won't necessarily think of.

At the business end of this sport -... business, there are coaches and staff that are no strangers to the use, promotion, and even the supply chain of these substances. I use the word " these" plural, because steroids are a family of products ... not just a simple pill or anything close to it. And WE definitely know the skin tone, eye contact, concentration levels, attitudes, comprehension levels, mood swings, performance spikes and depressions, muscle twitches, and on... and on... and on.

Now if anyone thinks that a professional coach, staff member or assistant, is going to tear up a perfectly good contract, job security and all the other things that go along with " honey I'm home..." we're not. I've been witness to guys who have gone this route and I ignore them like the plague. Why? Because there's not baseline to judge their performance. Not only that, but there are traits that every human being displays based on age, height, weight, personal background, training history, historical statistics, and so on that are pretty darn good as projections of the future. And a future for an athlete, especially pitchers, runs at a week at a time ... not months ... and certainly not years. Guys that don't drop off, or guys that run a hot streak for six or eight weeks straight with no let up in sight --- I cut from the rotation and isolate, maybe just for one or two scheduled slots. I then watch them like a hawk in the bullpen .... I see the slightest jumpy - jitters -- mood swing, we talk.
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Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation.
W. C. Fields

[FSTBLLTHRWER]

Jd, I did not by any means try to say that I believe steroid users are mostly responsible, intelligent individuals, and if I accidently did I apoligize. I believe that majority of those using anabolics are uninformed abusers looking to pack on a lot of muscle quickly. That's wrong, I don't agree with that in any way.

I do acknowledge that there is a decent amount of evidence that points to steroids overall not being good for the body. However the majority of this evidence is anecdotal, not actually studied. For example, we've seen media outlets connect the heart problems of those bodybuilders of the 70's with their steroid use, and this is generally considered evidence. It cannot be ignored, but its far from a direct, researched link between steroids and heart problems. Those guys never did any post cycle therapy so who knows if they had, whether these problems would still occur. My point is anecdotal evidence does not equal viable research.

My personal belief is that steroids can be used in a manner which gives tolerable, mostly reversible side effects, if they are used in a manner which intelligent users consider safe. This is all information I've gathered from browsing the t-nation and bodybuilding.com forums, but I feel most of the guys in the aas sections know their stuff.

The gist of it is-
-No younger than 23-25
-5+ years of solid, lifting expirience
-Ability to commit to a 3 month cycle and full post cycle therapy session.
-Regular bp tests and bloodwork to monitor factors steroids can negatively affect
-Having the necessary drugs on hand to counteract some side effects
-Notifying your physician so he/she is aware of what you will be doing
-Obtaining drugs from a legitemate source, and having access to clean needles and the such

These are just a few of the things stressed on the sites when it comes to cycling "safely". If these protocals are followed, I find it hard to believe anabolics really are one of the worlds most dangerous drugs, the problem is that they most often are not followed, and the consequences can be deadly.

I for one want to see long term research done on the physiological effects of those who cycle in such a manner as I just detailed. Who knows, maybe we would still see some of the same negative consequences, maybe we wouldn't.

[FSTBLLTHRWER]

And again jd, reading through your sources, everything is always associated, nothing ever directly linked. This is because research is anecdotal, not actually researched in a lab, for the most part. Now this again is the problem with the fact that we cannot do these studies. But citing said sources raises even more problems like-

-It seems to me, browsing steroid formers, that expirienced users and those who seem to know their drugs believe there is a "safe" way to use anabolics, safe being that the risk/reward ratio is tipped in favor of reward, and no serious side effects are noted.

Now if you could tell me all your associated evidence comes from these kind of steroid users then you would be on your way to convincing me. But I don't think you can, I'd be willing to bet most of those cases came from average gym rat who doesn't do his research and jumps into a cycle without the knowledge or a plan. This to me isn't evidence should be capable of demonizing steroids. Which brings us back to square one of not knowing whether steroids can be cycled with minimal short and long term side effects.

Bottom line is-

There is anecdotal evidence suggesting steroids have overall, short and long term negative consequences.

There is anecdotal evidence also suggesting that steroids, when used in a specific fashion, are generally safe with mild, reversible side effects.

Until we get some actual definitive research however, we have to simply speculate.

[FSTBLLTHRWER]

And to cap it off, heres my share of evidence I use to base my opinions, in case you are curious.

www.steroids.com

I've found this to be one of the most unbiased, straightforward sites on the web.

http://www.steroid.com/side.php

That link contains an entire page of research addressing each of the side effects mentioned in all of JD's sources.

Couple exerpts-

(Long term hormonal consequences)
What we see in this chart is not surprising to anyone who is actually familiar with steroids, and not with media-hype. In people studied who haven t used steroids for a year, ALL of their measured hormones (testosterone, estrogen) were within the NORMAL RANGE! Clearly, the effects that steroids have on your hormones are reversible and the horror stories we ve all read in the media about people who never regained normal hormonal function after one cycle  are greatly exaggerated. I think anyone who is familiar with "After School Specials" about steroids will be very surprised at learning this fact.

(Liver Damage)
We can see from the chart below that ex-steroid users have totally normal liver enzymes one year after they stop using& .in fact, for some liver enzymes, even the current users have normal scores!

(Cholesterol)
Steroids can, in fact lower HDL cholesterol and raise LDL cholesterol. HDL (high density lipoprotein, commonly referred to as "good cholesterol") helps to protect the arteries by bringing unused cholesterol to the liver where it is broken down. LDL on the other hand has the opposite effect. Some steroids can therefore cause high cholesterol levels with low HDL and high LDL. Some steroids are, of course, very mild on blood lipids, while others are notably harsh. In both cases, however, it is likely that a return to within normal parameters would occur after steroids are not being taken.

(Gyno)
The development of gynecomastia or feminization of the breast tissue in males is possible with anabolic steroids. This is due to an excess of estrogen being present in the body, through a process known as "aromatization" whereby androgens like testosterone are converted to estrogen. This excess estrogen then finds its way to the receptors in breast tissue and binds to them. This results in the possibility of female-like breast tissue, which must sometimes be removed by surgery. Most athletes experience itchiness of the nipples, followed by pain. Since this develops over several days, usually, the athlete usually has more than enough time to discontinue the use of the compounds he´s taking, or to attempt to counteract the breast tissue development while remaining on the cycle. The two most common ways this is achieved by steroid users is either to use an anti-estrogen like Nolvadex or Arimidex in their cycle or to take Letrozole (*a very strong Aromatase Inhibitor and antiestrogenic compound) afterwards, to destroy the tissue that has developed.

(Acne)
Anabolic steroids can cause the Development of acne and the extent to which it is experienced can be due to a number of varying factors, with the particular steroids and exact dosages used being the two primary factors. The skin´s sebaceous glands have a particularly high affinity to Dihydrotestosterone, which is an androgen the body naturally produces from testosterone via the enzyme 5-alpha Reductase. Increased sebaceous gland activity can oily skin which can combine with bacteria and dead skin caused by normal wear and tear, eventually causing pores to become clogged more quickly than the body can remove them. This of course, is preventable by using only particular steroids, cleansing the skin regularly, and perhaps using a topical anti-androgen.

(Roid Rage)
In fact, a landmark study was performed which examined different doses of testosterone administration on men aged 20-50, who had a variety of experience with steroids from having used them previously to not at all prior to the study. A variety of psychological tests were performed at the outset of the study as well as at the end. What was found was that no participant in the study had become violent as a result of the testosterone injections they had been receiving, although some said they  felt more aggressive. This clearly indicates that there is a high level of control over possible violent or aggressive behavior that can result from steroid use. The researchers also noted that in terms of the psychological tests performed, some subjects showed little or no response to testosterone, with regards to psychological measures, while others experienced significant changes. Thus, general temperment clearly plays a large role in how one responds psychologically to steroid administration. In addition, when this study was compared with others, similar results were found:

and

Out of 109 cases studied, only 5 people exhibited Psychological (Manic or Hypomanic) effects. (*Archives of General Psychiatry, Volume 57, February 2000.)

(Baldness)
Steroids can possibly cause men to start balding if they have a genetic predisposition towards Male Pattern Baldness.

(Cardiovascular issues)
Anabolic steroids have been linked with cardiovascular issues. Part of this may be due to their effects on Blood Lipids (see above). But some of it is due to the fact that many steroid users have been found to have enlarged ventricles. This is actually very common in bodybuilders as well as powerlifters and other types of athletes, and is more indicative of the effect of weight training on the heart, rather than solely steroid use.

(Stunted Growth)
The use of some steroids can possibly stunt the growth potential of people who have not finished growing. This is only possible with certain steroids, and not with others. In fact, certain steroids have been used in clinical settings to improve growth rates in children

(Prostate Enlargement)
Once again, this is only a possibility that steroids could cause enlargement of the prostate. The media-perpetuated claim of possible prostate cancer seems to be wholly unfounded, according to most research. In many cases, this enlargement is quickly remedied upon cessation of anabolic steroid use

(High Blood Pressure)
This problem is possibly the most easily remedied of all steroid side effects. It s very common for steroid using athletes attempting to gain maximum bulk to abstain from all aerobic activity. This causes the body to work much harder to circulate blood. Also, the typical water and sodium retention induced by certain steroids can contribute to this. If blood pressure is measured regularly to ensure that the value is not higher than 140/90, there should be no problems.

(Kidney Problems)
The kidneys can undergo more possible strain during anabolic steroid intake. Kidneys are involved in some of the filtration and excretion systems of the body, and as such, when a foreign substance is administered, they necessarily work harder. Some steroid users have noticed very dark urine when on a cycle, and this is indicative of the kidneys working overtime to accomplish their goal. One of the major offenders of this seems to be Trenbolone, which turns the user s urine a very dark color unless enough water is taken in daily. Also, even though I know you re probably getting sick of hearing this from me, the possibility of side effects is dependant on both dose as well as compounds administered. Some steroids (Nandrolone) are even used to help treat people with Kidney problems! So clearly, they aren´t as bad as they´re made out to be with regards to possible kidney issues.

(Immune system effects)
There is a large amount of data indicating that anabolic steroids may have some effect(s) on modulating the immune system. As with most potential side effects, this is largely dose and compound dependant. There is strong evidence that different analogues produce vastly different effects on the immune system.

(Sterility)
Sterility caused by steroids is temporary, of course, and generally reversible by treatment with Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators such as Nolvadex or Clomid , and/or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.



"Ok, so this last side effect isn´t really a steroid effect at all. But it s true, nonetheless. It´s my hope that you read this entire article and were surprised and possibly even a little outraged. Maybe you were outraged with how casually I seem to treat a very serious topic& but more likely than not, you were outraged at the fact that most of you´ve come to think about steroids and their horrible side effects has been greatly exaggerated. The simple fact of the matter is that anabolic steroids, like any medication, can cause a host of unwanted side effects. I´m certainly not suggesting otherwise. What I am suggesting is that a more logical and rational view be taken of them. The literature suggests that these drugs are safe when used in a clinical setting; my numerous interviews and experience with athletes suggests that this also holds true outside the clinical setting.

Please don´t misinterpret my position as being pro-steroid, anti-media, or anti-government. To do so would be to miss the point of this work entirely. I have the utmost respect for the media for providing the services that they do. I also have the utmost respect for the government and those who serve this country.

Anabolic Steroid Side Effects are a very real and possible concern for those who decide to use them. My position, therefore, is one that I hope is consistent with both the media as well as the government s position: I simply wish to tell the truth, and allow my reader to make the best and most informed choice possible. In that regard, I think this article has served its purpose.

By Anthony Roberts"






The more you know

[jdfromfla]

No the short term issues though potentially reversable should be enough.
IMO there. Long term being a crapshoot.
All of what you've pointed out aside, reflect the benefits as you theorhetically see them and apply them to pitching and how they would be of benefit to a pitcher. I mean the biggest most cut pitcher I ever saw was Kyle Farnsworth. He has very arguably become a much better pitcher since losing some of that muscle mass and definition. Also as I pointed out in MLB anyway it isn't used as a means to get bigger but a means to heal quicker and prolong career (Which I feel is where the League, the media and the agents have all colluded over..I've said before if I was a bona fide prospect who didn't get a shot during that era..I'd be looking hard at a class-action suit..not a shot but "something").
I wasn't thinking badly of you personally fbchunker I just didn't want a positive angle not to have a counter-point.
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So what? You prove them wrong