Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 6629 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posted: Nov 28, 2009 Post subject:
There is a difference between opening the hips and rotating... when he is opening his hips slightly (mid air) he is keeping his hips from rotating by keeping the back foot planted the heel is up and that is correct to do.
While I agree that some hip rotation occurs into foot plant and some occurs after foot plant, it really varies from pitcher to pitcher based in large part on their flexibility. For example, in this clip of Mark Prior, he is able to open the front leg into foot plant with almost no hip rotation:
Obviously, it's a different story for Colon as seen in the clip above.
But, regardless of this, I seriously doubt these pitchers are consciously trying to delay or keep the back foot planted as long as they can. IMHO.
the reason why you land with the stride foot slightly closed (pointed toward home plate at the 1 oClock position) is so you have leverage to rotate your hips.
But, regardless of this, I seriously doubt these pitchers are consciously trying to delay or keep the back foot planted as long as they can. IMHO
The back foot is what explodes the hips toward the plate. When you stride you are turning your hips but the back foot keeps them from opening so you are not throwing all arm. The reason why you keep all your weight on your back leg is for power. All the weight on the back foot will help you push/pivot that back foot to explode the hips -that have already been turning toward home plate during the stride.
Now I know the positions of pushing off vs not pushing.
First, I think there are a lot of confusion of what people are explaining. It's like they don't have the right vocabulary that fits in with each other.
This is how I see it...you don't push off the mound to get a drive toward the plate (momentum)........you do push the back foot to explode the hips, then the foot will be pulled away from the mound when rotating the shoulders and really pull away at and after external rotation.
I do this and I'm telling you from my own experience the arm goes for the ride. It's important to have your arm on it's way or up in the high cocked position when you push off that back foot to drive the hips. If you lag/get lazy/are late with getting your arm up into the high cock postion, you get wild, the arm rushes to catch up and may even cause some stress on the shoulder.
Can you explain how this "leverage" works?
The front foot stays pointed toward 3B during the stride (this helps keep your shoulders closed) then pointed to home plate slightly closed when landing. When you are about to land you push that back foot to drive your hips toward the plate. So then when you land, your hips would have already been in the process of rotating but not completely. Keeping the shoulders closed as much and long as possible until you land is important because when you land your stride leg gives you a firm base to rotate your torso and shoulders against.
I was doing some drills last night and I found you can turn/twist your hips during the stride....BUT you have to keep your shoulders closed, your front foot closed and your weight on the back foot parallel to the rubber. You have to ride that back leg/foot then push/piviot (something similar to hitting like "squashing the bug") just as, and I mean the later the better, you land.
I have a quote from roger clemens:
"At times my mechanics falter when I don't keep my front shoulder closed through my delivery. You've got to keep your glove-hand shoulder closed. That's your steering wheel, and you point it right at the location of the pitch you're throwing. Your left side is your quiet side if you are a right-handed pitcher and your right side is your power side. Any time that's reversed and the left side becomes my power side I get real jerky and start throwing the ball all over the place" ~ Roger Clemens
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 5550 Location: Green Cove Springs, Fla.
Posted: Nov 28, 2009 Post subject:
Tony can you show us some video of you conciously keeping the back foot down, I can't imagine it without it causeing some major timing issues?
To me the word or phrase that is missing here is energy transfer. At what point during the delivery have we left the back foot behind. _________________ So what? You prove them wrong
I already posted this vid on this site. What I'm doing here is what I am explaining.
I can't imagine it without it causeing some major timing issues?
To me the word or phrase that is missing here is energy transfer. At what point during the delivery have we left the back foot behind.
It doesn't cause timing issues if you have your hand up in the "high cocked" position. The moment you decide to explode the hips/push back foot you better have your arm up in the high cock position or at least halfway there or your arm is going to be late, then you rush to catch up. The force that your hips play into the delivery is pretty strong so if you are late with getting your arm up it would be pretty tough to control.
What I noticed is when my arm is late is I tend to throw the ball high and inside to the same handed batter. When I see myself throwing high and inside I know my problem is rushing (not getting my arm up in time) then I make the adjustment and if I still throw high then I know it's my release point.
Now the hip twist and then push off the back foot happens quick, like one right after another. You want to have it happen as late as possible without losing any weight/leverage on the back foot.
in this vid you should be able go frame by frame. You can def see how he keeps the back foot parallel to the rubber as he is striding out. You can also see his hips turning first before he pushes of the back foot. This is why strong legs are a must in pitching.
One key to Lincecum's delivery is to keep his left side, especially his left shoulder, aimed toward his target for as long as possible. "Don't open up too soon because then you lose leverage," Tim says. "If you twist a rubber band against itself, the recoil is bigger. The more torque I can come up with, the better."
Where Lincecum truly separates himself from most pitchers is the length of his stride. It is ridiculously long as it relates to his height. And just as his left foot, the landing foot, appears to be nearing the ground at the end of his stride, he lifts it as if stepping over a banana peel -- extending his stride even more. The normal stride length for a pitcher is 77% to 87% of his height. Lincecum's stride is 129%, or roughly 7 1/2 feet.
"That just came naturally," Tim says. "My dad always told me to sit down on my back leg as long as I could and push off as much as I could. I'm trying to get as much out of my body as possible. I've got to use my ankles, my legs, my hips, my back. . . . That's why I'm so contorted and it looks like I'm giving it full effort when it's not exactly full effort."
As for the "step-over" move near the end of his stride, Lincecum explains, "That's from my hips. I'm getting everything toward the target, and my hips want to go. My hips can't just go and open up. I'm trying to create torque. That's when everything kind of explodes. My body comes, and [my arm] is just kind of along for the ride."
How can Lincecum take such a long stride and still land on the ball of his left foot with a bent front knee? One secret, he explains, is what he calls his "ankle kick," a snapping of his right ankle as his right foot, the back foot, leaves the rubber. Lincecum comes off the rubber with such snap that, upon the ball's release, his right foot is more than a foot in front of the rubber, shrinking the distance -- and thus stealing precious time -- between him and the batter.
"My dad never taught me to lunge at the plate," Tim says. "It kind of came naturally. That ankle kick that I get and the drive that I get from my back leg will make a big difference in how I get to the plate and how I pitch that day."
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